So I was sitting here musing about picking up an HK45 full size because of the price decrease and .....and.....well I have no reason beyond I am a Gun guy. Anyhoo....

I got to thinking. All pistol calibers suck, 45 IMO is the cartridge that fairs the worst. It has the lowest capacity, large size and is generally just inefficient in the modern world. (I love .45 so don’t crucify me). At any rate I got to thinking....

It seems like, for a self defensive weapon/law enforcement weapon we should be chasing taser tech. Some kind of massive full body shutdown kind of “weapon” if you will. One that may be less then lethal but very effective at a one shot stop. A phaser on stun if you will. I don’t know if the tech is already cutting edge (which isn’t ready for prime time) but if not seems like an avenue worth going down.

Just musing......and I still want a big ole, inefficient, obsolescent HK45.

A while back I remember hearing Taser is trying this:
Shotgun load
"But instead of firing a slug or round of shot, the shotgun fires an electronic projectile weighing 3.4 grams (about .12 ounces)"

Kind of hard to fit in a pistol though.

It's all about shot placement but I'd take a 45 ACP any day for self defense.

One of the challenges with TASERs is that both barbs have to hit, and they need to hit far enough apart. At point blank range, the shock might hurt, but you won’t get the shutdown effect you are looking for. Back off far enough for a fourteen inch or so spread and you’ll get the effect you’re looking for. Back off too far and the barbs will spread too far and you’ll only get one (or none) on, and again you’ll have a failure to stop. Bullets, while not as high tech, are more reliable.

I think there has been in a huge leap in bullet tech, especially with 9mm. But there is always something else to consider: Time tested use and history.
Examples:
.45 ACP
.357 Magnum
Load up with the modern versions of these calibers and you are on the right side of history.
Buy the HK!

Haven't we already achieved complete nirvana with the 357 Sig? "Phasers on stun" were actually modeled after a prototype 357 Sig secretly made in the early 1950s, demonstrated to Gene Roddenberry when he was flying his 89 missions in the armed forces. Of course the prototypes were made by German engineers who had been visited by aliens and given detailed knowledge of future weapons.

I agree with both premises...the 45 works, and the concept of a massive energy dump also works.

Phased plasma rifle in the 40 Watt range for me please.

Maybe taser was a poor/too specific choice.

What I am getting at is humans/animals are basically electro/chemical organisms. If you are able to disrupt one of those things you should be able to turn them off so to speak.

So if we were able to design something to deliver something to disrupt either of those two things quickly and at reasonable range we should technically be able to make what amounts to a stunning device.

For example would it be possible to use some kind of laser or other type of energy to vaporize the air to allow an electrical charge to travel without wires over a self defense range. Said charge could be attuned to the average persons brain or motor functions or whatever. Yes I know I am delving into science fiction so to speak but gunpowder was sorcery at one time too.

I just feel like, at least for short range, self defense type situations that there might be a better way than poking a tiny hole or holes in somebody.

Of course I know shooting somebody is a fairly good deterrent but handguns are still a crap shoot in many ways. I just wonder if we are at a point in our technological development where we are able to start thinking outside the box a bit.

As for the HK45......I am gun guy.....I like my boom sticks and projectile throwers for no other reason then......I like anything with a trigger. I didn't bring it up as a is a .45 HK a decent defensive weapon question because.....well duh of course it is.

I am just letting my mind wander a bit and wondering if we could make a step forward in effectiveness as well as lowering the likelyhood of said effectiveness being lethal. Because at the end of the day self defense is simply about stopping the threat and I would imagine 99% of us would like to have an efficient means to do so and not have to live with the baggage of killing somebody no matter how justified.

I am not saying we are there just wondering if we are at a point where we could start thinking in this direction.

Then again..........12 gauge

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Phased plasma rifle in the 40 Watt range for me please.

Hey, just what you see pal.

While it is all about shot placement, placing a 45acp in the correct spot seems to work best.

And have you noticed that the LE units who most frequently have social gunfire interaction with felonious miscreants choose 45? I noticed that too. Regards 18DAI

This is something I’ve thought about occasionally because I believe a successful product would make a gazillion bucks for someone and therefore people must be working on it.

The primary problem beyond the physics of projecting a stun (or killing) beam would be the unintended consequences and other unknowns. How easy would it be to armor against it? Would tinfoil work? Would it work in heavy rain or snowfall? What sort of barriers would stop them; a windshield? More important, though, what would be the effects if the weapon were designed to be nonlethal and only intended to incapacitate the target.

For years TASER conducted all kinds of tests to confirm that their ECD couldn’t kill anyone and wouldn’t cause any permanent injury. After enough claims were made against them, though, some time ago they finally changed their guidance on how the devices should be used to minimize the likelihood of a fatal reaction. Any other sort of incapacitating device would face the same challenges. Lawyers and relatives would be lining up to claim that it killed some misguided soul no matter how its innocuous its effects seemed to be. If someone developed a horrible disease 20 years after being zapped, they’d blame it on the device.

If such a device had lethal effects, the resistance would, ironically, probably be even greater. Most gunshot victims survive their wounds (unless they’re shot by the bloodthirsty police who are terrible shots on the range, but nevertheless manage to kill every innocent bystander or misidentified suspect they encounter ). If being shot in the hand by the death ray resulted in immediate death, though, the professional victims and their advocates would have fits: “Why did you use that death ray‽ A regular gun would have just wounded him.”

Then of course there’s the whole reliability thing. How many shots would the device be capable of firing before recharging? Any electronic device would be subject to more problems and reliability issues than a firearm which is a mechanical device dependent on well-established chemistry. We can ignore and neglect most guns for decades and still rely on them to go bang when the time comes.

As a last point, I strongly doubt that any sort of projected energy weapon would be approved for possession and use by the masses. Even if they were generally safer for the user, bystanders, and targets, many people would object to the expansion of personal defense weapons.

THUNDERZAP.

Hasn't .45 also benefited from the new bullet tech? And it's still bigger....

I always wondered about exploding projectiles. Say a 45 sized bullet that is longer and hollow with a shrapnel shell. The projectile when it impacts and penetrates, lights off a high explosive charge, which created a large wound.

A 9mm might expand, but a .45 won’t shrink

quote:

Originally posted by smithnsig:
I always wondered about exploding projectiles. Say a 45 sized bullet that is longer and hollow with a shrapnel shell. The projectile when it impacts and penetrates, lights off a high explosive charge, which created a large wound.

Been tried. You can't get enough explosive in a bullet to do much more than expand or fragment the bullet... which a large hollowpoint will do more reliably and a lot cheaper.

Suppose if the death ray can be deflected by mirrors. Would they ban all mirrors? If tracking by thermal imaging, it is too easy to trick thermal imaging software to either decide you aren't there, or trick it into thinking you are somewhere else.

Now if you could get a .45 to expand to 14 inches after leaving the barrel? Well, they came out with that two years ago and everybody said it cost too much.

I don't know... I don't really care. I don't buy many weapons, I buy guns because I enjoy shooting them.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
A 9mm might expand, but a .45 won’t shrink

And 230 ÷ 2 = ?

I prefer the recoil of a 9mm vs others. I just got a hold of some new ammo made by Novx. It's a 9mm round that's 65grs spiral nose that states it's trucking out at 1655FPS. If it performs as advertised it's a winner. Light recoil with plenty of punch. Or it could be a bunch of hype I'll play with it before I carry. Chris