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Question on zeroing a Romeo Zero Login/Join 
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Picture of smlsig
posted
Forgive my ignorance. This is my first optic..

I recently bought a 365XL with the Romeo Zero optic. One of the first things I noticed when I opened the case was that there was no factory target so I was curious how accurate (or zeroed) it was straight out of the box.

I finally had a chance to go to the range yesterday and in shooting the pistol at 7 yards I was consistently high and to the left...When I got home I realized that maybe I’m not aiming the gun correctly. I was placing the dot on top of the front sight..

I came across this video of Colin Noir at the Sig Sauer Academy and they were talking about the sight being a single point of aim..I.e. you just put the dot on the target and that is where the bullet will hit (once the sight is adjusted properly).
https://youtu.be/6o72UwKqocc

Can anyone provide me with a link or information on how to sight and properly aim the Romeo Zero?

Thanks.
BTW the gun ran flawlessly.


------------------
Eddie

Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina
 
Posts: 4823 | Location: SML & OBX | Registered: February 19, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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Two things:

Unless they are irons mounted on the gun, sights are not zeroed at the factory (and zeroing irons is not done much these days). Because all guns and their dimensions are different, it would be impossible to know how the sight would need to be adjusted to zero them on any particular gun until it’s mounted on the gun. That’s why it’s usually necessary to rezero sights if they’re moved between guns or, very often, even if they’re removed from a gun and remounted. And even if the sight was already mounted on the gun when you bought it, SIG probably does not zero them. That would be time-consuming, expensive, and zeroes with optical sights can vary somewhat among individual shooters based on how they shoot the guns.

Most sights are shipped from the factory with their adjustments set to the centers of their movement ranges; i.e., centered for elevation and windage. Seldom, however, will that be what is necessary to zero a sight for a particular gun. You will therefore need to zero the sight for your gun yourself. I just checked the sight’s owner’s manual and found this:
“NOTE – The illuminated dot of the ROMEOZero has been adjusted to mechanical center at the factory. Therefore, the optic will be very close to zeroed when installed, and should only require minor adjustment to bring point of aim and point of impact together.”

That doesn’t mean, though, that no adjustment may be necessary. The manual also explains how to zero the sight by adjusting point of impact (POI) with respect to the point of aim (POA) with the supplied tool. If the POI is high, dial down; if left, dial right.

The best way to zero a handgun sight is to shoot it while firmly rested on something like a firm sandbag that allows some position adjustment but without being so soft that it doesn’t support your hand and the gun securely. Fire at least three shots, see where the center of the group is, adjust your sight, fire another group, and repeat until your point of aim and point of impact are the same at your desired zeroing distance. As discussed below, don’t try to do any of that with the reticle dot positioned with respect to the front sight. Just try to center the dot in your field of view through the sight.

Unlike most magnifying optical sights, the Romeo evidently does not have click stops to help us know how much to adjust the windage and elevation, so it’s necessary to use try and check. I recommend something like this: Shoot your initial group. If it’s high, dial down the elevation a half a turn (180°) of the adjustment screw. Shoot another group. If the elevation is now correct (unlikely, but possible), leave it there. If not, note how much that 180° turn moved the POI; if only half as much as necessary, then dial another half turn, and so on. Don’t just make dialing adjustments at random, or you’ll spend all day and lots of ammo chasing the zero.

Second, optical sight reticles do not have to be visually positioned with respect to the iron sights. Although it’s usually best if the reticle dot can be visually positioned close to the center of the field of view when aiming, that isn’t strictly necessary. Nonmagnifying red dot sights are usually considered to be parallax free, which means the dot can be lined up with the target pretty much anywhere in the field of view through the sight and the point of impact won’t change (not much, anyway). So, once the sight is zeroed so that point of aim with the reticle yields the desired point of impact on the target, just put the dot where you want the bullet to go and shoot. Do not attempt to include the front sight in your sight picture when shooting normally.*

* Not to confuse the issue, but when zeroing a red dot sight I do attempt to position the dot in the same place in my field of view for every shot. A good way to ensure that is to position it just above the front sight because then its position doesn’t vary from shot to shot. That’s only for zeroing, though. After the sight is zeroed, I just ignore the front sight and don’t attempt to do what I do for zeroing. (If the guidance in this paragraph is confusing or unclear, just ignore it.)

Added: I also have opinions about what type of target to use for zeroing red dot sights (hint: not a black bull’s-eye), but this post is already long and I don’t want to get into those weeds unless requested.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund,




“The most common reaction to a life-or-death situation is to do nothing.”
— Amanda Ripley, The Unthinkable: who survives when disaster strikes and why (New York: Three Rivers Press, 2008)
 
Posts: 42909 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of powermad
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I have found Sig Red dots to be installed mechanically zeroed and will need to be adjusted.

With a red dot you aim with the dot only.
Don't try to slave it to the iron sights, it's not there to help see the front sight better.
The red dot and irons work independently, not together.

Both eyes open and focused on the target, when you press out the dot will be over the target.
Don't chase the dot, if you have to "stir the pot" to find it then your presentation is wrong.
Practice pressing out so that the dot pops up with no searching for it.



 
Posts: 591 | Location: Portland Oregon | Registered: October 01, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of smlsig
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Thank you guys.
I have some homework and range time ahead of me to get this dialed in.


------------------
Eddie

Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina
 
Posts: 4823 | Location: SML & OBX | Registered: February 19, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Casuistic Thinker and Daoist
Picture of 9mmepiphany
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When I first got my P320RX slide, I first checked zero with the included iron sights. Then I shot the optic, off the bench, to see where it was hitting in relation to the iron sight's POI.

I tend you shoot at fairly close distances(3-5yards) when first zeroing to make sure I'm be on paper. At that distance, I'd expect the shots to be on top of each other. Then I'll more the target back to a useful distance of 15-20 yards to see how far off the zero is. Finally I'll move out to 50 yards to see the dispersion inherent in the dot.

Because of the inherent movement of the dot, I tend to zero it much as I'd zero a longgun...solid rest, taking breath control into consideration, and incrementally increasing pressure on the trigger until it releases




No, Daoism isn't a religion



 
Posts: 13544 | Location: northern california | Registered: February 07, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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On a pistol you do not “zero” the red dot in relation to the irons like you sometimes can with rifles. They have nothing to do with each other. Zero the sights ( as mentioned no company I know of yet fires pistols for zero and accuracy anymore) then totally ignore the sights and zero the red dot.
 
Posts: 2719 | Location: Finally free in AZ! | Registered: February 14, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks all for the excellent info. I have a lot of work to do. This has given me quite a few things to start with.
 
Posts: 7 | Registered: April 23, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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For zeroing my reflex (red dot) sights I use a
SightMark 9mm bore laser. All my pistols are 9mm.
Shield suggested at 17 meters. Seems about right to me.
So at 17 meters I match the two dots. For daytime
zeroing any of the reflective papers will do fine.
Even a stop sign will work! likely the license plate on your car will cause the laser dot to
glow in daylight.
I've found this method works great. My nephew and ne shoot at cheap Walmart yellow tennis balls out on the desert. (As well at 10 inch gong targets)
Poli Viejo
 
Posts: 360 | Location: Green Valley, Arizona | Registered: May 01, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As I think has been stated above... the point of impact of the round should be where the dot is. One of the issues with red dots and especially on pistols is the time it takes to acquire a sight pictured using the dot... what I learned is to draw and use the iron sights first and then take a nano second to refine your aim with the dot.

another item I learned with the red dot is that it will show you that your point of aim is changing depending on your grip or finger placement.
 
Posts: 1959 | Location: Greenville, SC | Registered: January 30, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
fugitive from reality
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Maybe it's just me but I've zeroed every RDS by placing the dot on an already zeroed set of iron sights. I place the dot lolly pop on the front sight. I have never had an issue with POA\POI. The Army made me waste half a day zeroing by the book so I could check the 'trained to standard' box. It was a waste of time.

Edited for spelling.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SgtGold,


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Posts: 6767 | Location: Newyorkistan | Registered: March 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by SgtGold:
Maybe it's just me but I've zeroed every RDS by placing the dot on an already zeroed set of iron sights. I plact the dot lolly pop on the front sight. I have never had an issue with POA\POI. The Army made me waste half a day zeroing by the book so I could check the 'trained to standard' box. It was a waste of time.


I do the same.
The end result comes quickly, with few rounds needed.
 
Posts: 95 | Location: NEPA | Registered: March 23, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of ALLEGRO1957
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quote:
Originally posted by Blume9mm:
As I think has been stated above... the point of impact of the round should be where the dot is. One of the issues with red dots and especially on pistols is the time it takes to acquire a sight pictured using the dot... what I learned is to draw and use the iron sights first and then take a nano second to refine your aim with the dot.

another item I learned with the red dot is that it will show you that your point of aim is changing depending on your grip or finger placement.


I made the switch from my G23.3 to a P320cRX.

Acquiring the "dot" is all about presentation and practice. With consistent "draw" fundamentals you will quickly develop the skill so that your natural "point of aim" presents the dot on your intended target. Best residual benefit is that your iron sights too are aligned once you can replicate the correct presentation.

I think I once read that its all about the practice......somewhere I think. I think I also read something about dry-firing.


Be a productive citizen but always be prepared
 
Posts: 28 | Registered: October 14, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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quote:
Originally posted by SgtGold:
I've zeroed every RDS by placing the dot on an already zeroed set of iron sights.


By “placing,” do you mean that you adjust the sight dot so that it appears to be located just above the front sight blade when the irons are aligned properly?




“The most common reaction to a life-or-death situation is to do nothing.”
— Amanda Ripley, The Unthinkable: who survives when disaster strikes and why (New York: Three Rivers Press, 2008)
 
Posts: 42909 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
fugitive from reality
Picture of SgtGold
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
quote:
Originally posted by SgtGold:
I've zeroed every RDS by placing the dot on an already zeroed set of iron sights.


By “placing,” do you mean that you adjust the sight dot so that it appears to be located just above the front sight blade when the irons are aligned properly?


Correct. All I have to do to remove the irons from the sight picture and use the dot by itself is tilt my head up.

Also, after trying a dot specific draw stroke I found I'm just as fast drawing to use the irons. Once the sights are close to alignment the dot is already present in my field of view. I am now free to run the dot as either a stand alone or as part of the iron sight picture.

Edited for clarity.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SgtGold,


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Posts: 6767 | Location: Newyorkistan | Registered: March 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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quote:
Originally posted by SgtGold:
Correct.


Thanks. Definitely makes sense.




“The most common reaction to a life-or-death situation is to do nothing.”
— Amanda Ripley, The Unthinkable: who survives when disaster strikes and why (New York: Three Rivers Press, 2008)
 
Posts: 42909 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
I am now free to run the dot as either a stand alone or as part of the iron sight picture

I'm pretty sure your eyes don't work that way. I draw to the dot period. Not saying that I didn't have to learn that, but its completely natural now. The idea that you draw to the irons and then pick the dot or the irons is a two part solution to a one part problem and it has to be slower as you have to deal with focus differences between the two. The only reason for me to even consider the irons is that the dot is somehow unusable. It sometimes happens to me in matches especially in indoor shoot environments where the light is 'unusual' like you go in in total darkness using your light and then suddenly some big spotlights come one. The dot isn't going to work. It takes me a second to figure out if I'm going to just shoot centering the window or pick up the irons.
FWIW>


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 9142 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
fugitive from reality
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quote:
Originally posted by hrcjon:
quote:
I am now free to run the dot as either a stand alone or as part of the iron sight picture

I'm pretty sure your eyes don't work that way. I draw to the dot period. Not saying that I didn't have to learn that, but its completely natural now. The idea that you draw to the irons and then pick the dot or the irons is a two part solution to a one part problem and it has to be slower as you have to deal with focus differences between the two. The only reason for me to even consider the irons is that the dot is somehow unusable. It sometimes happens to me in matches especially in indoor shoot environments where the light is 'unusual' like you go in in total darkness using your light and then suddenly some big spotlights come one. The dot isn't going to work. It takes me a second to figure out if I'm going to just shoot centering the window or pick up the irons.
FWIW>


I'll explain it thusly. I no longer have a duty gun. When I did I was an MP, RDS's were in their infancy, and only our rifles had RDS's, i.e Comp M3's and 4's. I've never carried a pistol with a RDS, mainly because I pocket carry 80% of the time and anything with an optic won't fit. All of my draw mechanics are based on irons, so I've modified my RDS draw to work with irons, not the other way around.

What I do sounds cumbersome to someone who trained from the start or now uses a pistol optic on a regular basis, but I'm as fast as any other well trained shooter because that's how I've learned to do it. It doesn't have to make sense to you for me to be able to make it work. Re learning my drawstroke and sighting solution would only make sense if I were adopting a RDS as my primary sighting system.

Or, to put it another way, I still use the USGI 300 meter zero for any 5.56\223 rifle or carbine. Why? Because I learned it in 1982 on an m16A1, relearned it in again in 2006 on the M16A2 and M4, and it just how my brain works. I'm quicker on holdovers using the 300 meter cross hair because that's how I learned to shoot a rifle. Where is my POA\POI, and how do I hold over or under based on the distance to the target.


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Posts: 6767 | Location: Newyorkistan | Registered: March 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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