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I Want to Hear from Both Sides: .40 S&W vs. .357 SIG Login/Join 
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I have a Shield M.2 in .40 that I converted to 357 Sig. Primarily because I disliked the .40. The difference in trajectory from the Shield's short barrel was more than I could easily compensate for. I had to change the front sight to a much shorter one to bring the hits up 4-5".
At this point the two barrels are not effectively interchangeable anymore. And I have close to a unicorn weapon but It's a whole lot of fun.


Bill
 
Posts: 93 | Registered: February 04, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill-in-Texas:
ElToro,
I’ve been home in Texas for almost two weeks, having been in the SBA for about 7 months (for work). I’ll definitely go back... I may need to hit you up for good shooting ranges, etc. when I return (to San José / Santa Clara area).
California’s gun restrictions just stink, but that’s for another discussion... beautiful state, though!

Thanks, everyone for contributing to this topic. I’m getting some great insight!

-Bill


No worrris. They closed Chabot due to commies running the county. Target masters in Milpitas and Reeds in Santa Clara are the only indoor places in Santa Clara I’m aware of that are public access. I’m in Livermore and shoot indoor at guns fishing and other things Dublin and outdoor at the Livermore rod and gun club and also occasional trek to BLM which closes for public shooting May 1 due to fire.
 
Posts: 3290 | Location: San Francisco Bay Area  | Registered: November 23, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
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Despite reports of its demise, .40 is still about even in the LE market as 9mm, last I checked. So it's still going to get significant ammo support.

.357 SIG never had that much penetration into the LE market, and that's dropping like a rock (see Jerry's previous post.) It's basically going the way that 10mm did (niche / enthusiast caliber.)
 
Posts: 18834 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
quote:
Originally posted by GregY:
quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
quote:
Originally posted by triaxle:
yes 357 is flatter but you don`t shoot 50yard or more with this type gun anyway .


Why not?


In a defensive scenario?


When someone engages you at the mall, or the post office, or a movie theater, or a parking lot, are you really going to measure the distance, determine whether it's "defensive" or not, or refuse to defend yourself?

Or are you going to use that weapon for it's design purpose, and kill the motherfucker before he kills you or someone else?

You don't get to choose the distance. That gets chosen for you. You only get to respond.

If it's 50 yards, are you going fight, or die?

Don't imagine that at 50 yards you can withdraw or hide. You don't get to choose.

There's no such thing as a "defensive distance."

The gun rags said that most gunfights take place at 7 yards or less. Isn't that tidy, imagining that gunfights happen only at distances where one can't miss? Makes it easy to shoot at paper at 7 yards or less and feel that it's all good. Reality is that it could be any time, any where.

Pull into the gas station, pump, machine doesn't take the card. No problem, run in, pay. Emerge, see someone getting into your car. With your kid in the back. They're 49 yards away. Are you going to stop them, or run after and yell "halt, or I'll yell 'halt' again?"

You don't get to choose.


I don't carry insurance against meteor strikes or shark attack, either. FFS.

You weigh the likelihood of a threat against the potential loss caused by that threat, versus the resources needed to counter that threat, weighed against your available resources.

You should be carrying a long arm and wearing a plate carrier 24/7. But that also is woefully inadequate against many proven threats.

Personally, I prefer shooting. 357 to .40 and I happen to have both barrels for both my 229's. But when I carry a 229 it's almost always set up for .40 it's what I stock more of, practice more with (ammo availability and cost) and on certain occasions would want to maintain ammo compatibility with another weapon that is only in .40.

Saying that you MUST choose a certain thing (weapon, caliber, load, whatever) in order to achieve small incremental performance gains that could benefit you in certain corner cases, as a categorical imperative, is bloody retarded. Because the corner cases and available incremental performance gains available that could theoretically address them, never end.

It's not cut and dried YOU MUST unless you're willing to keep going down that rabbit hole all the way to the bottom.
 
Posts: 2311 | Location: MO | Registered: March 07, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
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quote:
Originally posted by GregY:

I don't carry insurance against meteor strikes or shark attack, either. FFS.

You weigh the likelihood of a threat against the potential loss caused by that threat, versus the resources needed to counter that threat, weighed against your available resources.

You should be carrying a long arm and wearing a plate carrier 24/7.


I love each time there is a mass shooting, we hear we just need “more good guys” with guns. When the heat is off, you read stuff like this.


_______________________________________________________________________
www.opspectraining.com

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 32582 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by GregY:
quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
quote:
Originally posted by GregY:
quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
quote:
Originally posted by triaxle:
yes 357 is flatter but you don`t shoot 50yard or more with this type gun anyway .


Why not?


In a defensive scenario?


When someone engages you at the mall, or the post office, or a movie theater, or a parking lot, are you really going to measure the distance, determine whether it's "defensive" or not, or refuse to defend yourself?

Or are you going to use that weapon for it's design purpose, and kill the motherfucker before he kills you or someone else?

You don't get to choose the distance. That gets chosen for you. You only get to respond.

If it's 50 yards, are you going fight, or die?

Don't imagine that at 50 yards you can withdraw or hide. You don't get to choose.

There's no such thing as a "defensive distance."

The gun rags said that most gunfights take place at 7 yards or less. Isn't that tidy, imagining that gunfights happen only at distances where one can't miss? Makes it easy to shoot at paper at 7 yards or less and feel that it's all good. Reality is that it could be any time, any where.

Pull into the gas station, pump, machine doesn't take the card. No problem, run in, pay. Emerge, see someone getting into your car. With your kid in the back. They're 49 yards away. Are you going to stop them, or run after and yell "halt, or I'll yell 'halt' again?"

You don't get to choose.


I don't carry insurance against meteor strikes or shark attack, either. FFS.

You weigh the likelihood of a threat against the potential loss caused by that threat, versus the resources needed to counter that threat, weighed against your available resources.

You should be carrying a long arm and wearing a plate carrier 24/7.


I love each time there is a mass shooting, we hear we just need “more good guys” with guns. When the heat is off, you read stuff like this.


From someone who carries every day.

But there are limits to the resources I will devote to physical security, because I have limited resources and many demands on them.

Get a grip.

And in case you couldn't tell, the long gun comment was a sarcastic reaction to the blowhard.
 
Posts: 2311 | Location: MO | Registered: March 07, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It’s from someone who has been to two active shooters. Someone who refuses to make excuses about resources and let people die because I’m too lazy to train.

I have stepped over the dead that someone should have been there to help, and often it was a distance shot that could have saved them. So don’t fucking tell me to “get a grip”. I’ve firmly got a grip, and that grip isn’t running and hiding because things got hard. And it surely isn’t hiding behind made up statistics.

Spare me the “you’re a cop” crap. Even if I wasn’t on the job I still would not let people die. And part of that effort is not being lazy on front loading the training for all situations. Even the hard stuff.


_______________________________________________________________________
www.opspectraining.com

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 32582 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
It’s from someone who has been to two active shooters. Someone who refuses to make excuses about resources and let people die because I’m too lazy to train.

I have stepped over the dead that someone should have been there to help, and often it was a distance shot that could have saved them. So don’t fucking tell me to “get a grip”. I’ve firmly got a grip, and that grip isn’t running and hiding because things got hard. And it surely isn’t hiding behind made up statistics.

Spare me the “you’re a cop” crap. Even if I wasn’t on the job I still would not let people die.


So this has gone from you have to choose 357 over 40 because it's easier to hit with at 50 yards (if that were the only deciding factor then 357 and 40 are both unacceptable), to a blowhard saying I'm gonna die on the streets if I'm not fully prepared to take 50 yard shots at the Post Office, to your emotional incontinence.

Get a fucking grip.
 
Posts: 2311 | Location: MO | Registered: March 07, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by GregY:

Saying that you MUST choose a certain thing (weapon, caliber, load, whatever) in order to achieve small incremental performance gains that could benefit you in certain corner cases, as a categorical imperative, is bloody retarded.


It's also irrelevant. Nobody here has said any such thing.

quote:
Originally posted by GregY:
I don't carry insurance against meteor strikes or shark attack, either. FFS.


Equally irrelevant.

quote:
Originally posted by GregY:
You weigh the likelihood of a threat against the potential loss caused by that threat, versus the resources needed to counter that threat, weighed against your available resources.


If your handgun is an available resource, it's capable of engaging somone at 50 yards.

quote:
Originally posted by GregY:
You should be carrying a long arm and wearing a plate carrier 24/7. But that also is woefully inadequate against many proven threats.


Entirely irrelevant, but if you feel you must, good luck to you.

Do you carry a handgun? That's relevant to the thread. If it's a .357 Sig, that's particularly relevant. A 50 yard shot is relevant in part because someone introduced it, and in part becuase the .357 Sig is a flat shooting, fast catrdige (which actually has less recoil impulse than .40) and is well suited to such a shot. Then again, if you carry 9X19 you should ge able to do the same.

Again, you don't get to choose the distance, unless you're hunting. If you're defensive, then the distance chooses you.

quote:
Originally posted by GregY:
It's not cut and dried YOU MUST unless you're willing to keep going down that rabbit hole all the way to the bottom.


Of course not. It's irrelevant.

The only person talking about what one must do is YOU.
 
Posts: 3198 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'll jump back to topic

I got rid of all my .40's after getting into .357SIG. I think the firearm you choose makes a world of difference. I had a P229 in .357SIG, and a P226, and the only one I still have is a Glock 32. I don't know why but that G32 handles the round so well.

I love the sound signature, and I swear I can shoot that gun faster accurately than most of my 9mm's.

The pistol caliber debate will rage on for ages, so clearly there's no right answer. My advice, collect them all Wink



*Handguns are fine, Shotguns are final
 
Posts: 1193 | Location: IL | Registered: August 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Still finding my way
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So many really fun threads devolve into pissing matches. Frown
 
Posts: 7920 | Registered: January 04, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
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Funny, the only 357SIG pistol I ever shot was a P229, and I really liked it. Don't know if it was the round or the gun, but I suspect the latter.

quote:
Originally posted by trickedtrix:
I'll jump back to topic

I got rid of all my .40's after getting into .357SIG. I think the firearm you choose makes a world of difference. I had a P229 in .357SIG, and a P226, and the only one I still have is a Glock 32. I don't know why but that G32 handles the round so well.

I love the sound signature, and I swear I can shoot that gun faster accurately than most of my 9mm's.

The pistol caliber debate will rage on for ages, so clearly there's no right answer. My advice, collect them all Wink
 
Posts: 18834 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
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I want back a few posts, so we're actually talking about the round in question.

The difference in drop at 50 yards from comparable 357SIG to .40 is about an inch (that was with a 180 grain .40. A 155 or 165 might be less.) Given everything else that's going on in a shooting, and presuming the shooter has trained shooting at that range with the gun/ammo combo he carries, is this going to make a real difference?

quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by GregY:
quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
quote:
Originally posted by triaxle:
yes 357 is flatter but you don`t shoot 50yard or more with this type gun anyway .


Why not?


In a defensive scenario?


If you don’t think there are justifiable defensive scenarios that demand accuracy at 50, you are a statistical gunfighter, you read too many gun rags, or the big one, you haven’t been paying attention in the last 10 years.
 
Posts: 18834 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
I want back a few posts, so we're actually talking about the round in question.

The difference in drop at 50 yards from comparable 357SIG to .40 is about an inch (that was with a 180 grain .40. A 155 or 165 might be less.) Given everything else that's going on in a shooting, and presuming the shooter has trained shooting at that range with the gun/ammo combo he carries, is this going to make a real difference?

quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by GregY:
quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
quote:
Originally posted by triaxle:
yes 357 is flatter but you don`t shoot 50yard or more with this type gun anyway .


Why not?


In a defensive scenario?


If you don’t think there are justifiable defensive scenarios that demand accuracy at 50, you are a statistical gunfighter, you read too many gun rags, or the big one, you haven’t been paying attention in the last 10 years.


The construction of the gun is really more important than the caliber. Muzzle energy is a consideration for sure, but a shooter can pick and take either and do well.


_______________________________________________________________________
www.opspectraining.com

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 32582 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
posted Hide Post
I agree. People were making a big deal over the 357Sig being flatter shooting. We're not talking a laser vs a mortar here.

quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
I want back a few posts, so we're actually talking about the round in question.

The difference in drop at 50 yards from comparable 357SIG to .40 is about an inch (that was with a 180 grain .40. A 155 or 165 might be less.) Given everything else that's going on in a shooting, and presuming the shooter has trained shooting at that range with the gun/ammo combo he carries, is this going to make a real difference?

quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by GregY:
quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
quote:
Originally posted by triaxle:
yes 357 is flatter but you don`t shoot 50yard or more with this type gun anyway .


Why not?


In a defensive scenario?


If you don’t think there are justifiable defensive scenarios that demand accuracy at 50, you are a statistical gunfighter, you read too many gun rags, or the big one, you haven’t been paying attention in the last 10 years.


The construction of the gun is really more important than the caliber. Muzzle energy is a consideration for sure, but a shooter can pick and take either and do well.
 
Posts: 18834 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
quote:
Originally posted by GregY:
quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
quote:
Originally posted by triaxle:
yes 357 is flatter but you don`t shoot 50yard or more with this type gun anyway .


Why not?


In a defensive scenario?


When someone engages you at the mall, or the post office, or a movie theater, or a parking lot, are you really going to measure the distance, determine whether it's "defensive" or not, or refuse to defend yourself?

Or are you going to use that weapon for it's design purpose, and kill the motherfucker before he kills you or someone else?

You don't get to choose the distance. That gets chosen for you. You only get to respond.

If it's 50 yards, are you going fight, or die?

Don't imagine that at 50 yards you can withdraw or hide. You don't get to choose.

There's no such thing as a "defensive distance."

The gun rags said that most gunfights take place at 7 yards or less. Isn't that tidy, imagining that gunfights happen only at distances where one can't miss? Makes it easy to shoot at paper at 7 yards or less and feel that it's all good. Reality is that it could be any time, any where.

Pull into the gas station, pump, machine doesn't take the card. No problem, run in, pay. Emerge, see someone getting into your car. With your kid in the back. They're 49 yards away. Are you going to stop them, or run after and yell "halt, or I'll yell 'halt' again?"

You don't get to choose.


Man, that must be a massive gas station for their pumps to be half a football field away.

Also, I'm not sure I'm taking a shot with a pistol at 50 yards if my kids are a foot to the right of the bad guy...
 
Posts: 2894 | Registered: January 27, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of SevenPlusOne
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I shoot 357 SIG because it's fun.



"Ninja kick the damn rabbit"
 
Posts: 3951 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: October 11, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
Picture of MikeinNC
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I shot a large Rottweiler with a P226 in 357SIG. Round entered the chest and exited the ham, transiting diagonally from L to R. Dog was dead when he landed. Did what I needed it to do, I have dispatched plenty of deer aand a cow with 9mm, and I shoot 40 in my USPSA games. I chose that caliber because I have buckets of brass and it meets major with little recoil.


When I retired they gave me my P226, I don’t carry it because it’s big for concealed carry. But I wouldn’t worry about either calibers, they both have their pros and cons. Go shoot the crap outta both calibers and make up your own mind.



"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers

 
Posts: 5882 | Location: Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
E tan e epi tas
Picture of cslinger
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Wasn’t .357SIGs real claim to fame that it did well going though auto glass? I mean I know it was designed to replicate 125 grain .357 magnum but didn’t the various state patrols who adopted it primarily do so due to its performance through glass?


"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."
 
Posts: 4072 | Location: Nashville, TN | Registered: July 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of SigSentry
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Actually sold my 357 barrel for the p229. I will not sell those for my p239 and sp2022, The p239 especially. I am milking a few hundred rnds of gold dot. I still like my golden saber in 40 Wink
 
Posts: 2304 | Registered: May 30, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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