There are still plenty of parts, grips, magazines, and holsters around for the Model 59.

quote:

Originally posted by photohause:
Parts?

This is the argument I usually hear against the 59 series, or Smith third gen pistols in general. Places like Numrich have virtually all the parts you would need.

However, let's face it. They don't break.

I have to qualify this by admitting that I have never owned (Or even shot, IIRC) a 1st-3rd gen Smith. That's not because I don't like them...in fact, I've not really heard anything bad about them...I just have enough other interests to spend money on that I've never had a compelling reason to buy one.

But as a guy who's first gun was a full-size 92FS, I don't think there's anything wrong with a full-size DA/SA metal-framed handgun as a first gun. In fact, there are some great reasons to buy one.

1.) They're easy to shoot. Big guns provide a long sight radius, a full grip, and felt recoil is minimal, especially in 9mm.

2.) They're cheap...crazy cheap in fact with all the police trades on the market for the past few years. Remind me again why I don't own one of these yet?

3.) It's a reliable, proven design

4.) The DA/SA platform provides a good avenue for a new shooter to practice and develop sound trigger control

5.) If you can't find ammo for it, you can always beat somebody to death with it without having to be concerned about damaging the gun

6.) There are tons of parts and even whole replacement guns available for these things. There are lots of them in circulation, and anything you need you should be able to get.


Now, if we're talking about a first CARRY gun, I have some issues with this choice:

1.) I won't carry a gun with a manual safety. IMO fine for a range gun, but don't want one on my defensive weapons.

2.) It sounds like the 59 doesn't have a firing pin block/drop safety...that's an important safety feature I'd want on a carry gun.

3.) It's huge and heavy.

But seeing as the OP is from CA, I don't imagine that carry is in the cards. For a handgun to take to the range and home defense, I'd say you could do a lot worse than a Model 59.

The 59 is a great pistol. Compared to what is heing pushed out the door by manufacturers today - it is an AWESOME gun!

Get some mags, some leather off Ebay, hunt down some defensive 9mm and call it good. I have shot 3rd gen guns for decades. I broke exactly 3 parts - two on the same pistol. All were replaced, quickly. One from the factory and the other two parts from GB.

jljones nailed it. These guns don't break. They were made prior to 2001, the year S&W went out of business. Regards 18DAI

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by photohause:
Parts?

This is the argument I usually hear against the 59 series, or Smith third gen pistols in general. Places like Numrich have virtually all the parts you would need.

However, let's face it. They don't break.

I just can't agree with that. Yes, the frame is highly durable and very unlikely to be an issue but there are lots of small parts in those things.

I'm a fan of the 3rd Gen Smith and own or have owned many of them.

I used to shoot them a lot. But it is a myth that they are indestructible. Little things happen and can break when you use them.

In the current environment, it is unlikely any new shooter will be shooting high round counts but if you push the Smiths, things can and do happen.

To be fair, I'm talking about the 3rd gens. I do not have direct experience with the 1st generation. Also, I am talking about the platform as a whole and not specifically the 59** series.

I read the comment often those about the super reliable nature of these guns. They are good guns but based on my experience, things can and do go wrong with them if you shoot them enough.

Beware early-run guns; many of those apparently had a nasty reputation for unreliability, or so I've been told by a M59 owner who was giving me advice on choosing and buying a used 1st-gen S&W a few years ago. That said, I've no idea on what exactly constitutes "an early example" since I wound up buying a M39 instead.

Well, lets see. I can give some round counts that I recall (ex-wife threw out my log book during divorce and I no longer bother counting rounds)

4506-1 over 5K. No breakages or malfunctions.

4566 LE Special order - decock only with spurless hammer - 4K+ with no breakage or malfunctions.

4516 LE Special order. Broke the MIM Mag catch like the cheap pot metal it was. Replaced with forged part from S&W customer service. Not one problem since. 5K+ rounds.

3913 early production - 2K Rounds no malfunctions or breakage.

910 "value line - at 19K rounds the frame cracked at the front left rail. No issues prior to that.

457 "value line" at 5K+ the nylon mag catch wore. Replaced it with a metal catch off GB. At 9K the sideplate broke. Replaced it with one of GB. Gun still runs well.

Keep in mind that the majority of that ammo shot was provided by the taxpayers of NC. The rest was either cases of closeout ammo from the local cop shop or customers ammo during instruction. I always shot a lot and still do. And a few of those guns listed were used in IDPA competition for several years.

Most people will never shoot that much through a 3rd gen gun. And if they do, they can afford to buy a replacement in the unlikely event the gun fails.

I'm not worried about parts or breakage. At all. And I carry either a 45 or 9mm 3rd gen every day. And shoot them weekly too. Regards 18DAI

All you parts guys. Do you keep a bunch of spare parts? Seems if you are that worried then you should. I do for a couple guns. I could build a couple 92’s because the parts are cheap and I’ve picked them up at intervals. Got a couple nice Beretta fishing tackle style kits for a song years ago. CZ’s also. Because things do break on those. And I like to tinker.

I guess my point is, with all the 3rd gen Smiths I own and shoot I don’t keep spare parts around. Can they break? Sure. But they are hell for stout and parts are out there. If you crack a frame you are buying a new gun.

This guy will love his 59. I’m always looking for a nice 39 myself. Wood grips. Adjustable sights. Old school beauty. I would feel very well served with one as well.

And 92fsguy you should pick up a 3rd gen. I love them. Especially their single stacks. 3913. Yum. Only thing I do is pop off rear sight and disable the mag safety. I know I shouldn’t mess blah blah blah, but I abhor magazine safeties. Other than that pretty great guns.

quote:

And 92fsguy you should pick up a 3rd gen. I love them. Especially their single stacks. 3913. Yum.

Don't tempt me. I have a soft spot for single-stacks...I'm still looking for a 92FS Compact Type M that I can afford! If Beretta ever brings those back, they'll be taking my money.

I almost bought a 1006 or 1076 a number of years ago (don't remember which model it was). I was really young and stupid at the time, and I saw it at the LGS for $350. I was contemplating buying it when I saw a shiny Taurus M44 in .44 Mag nearby for the same price. Idiot me thought "ooooh, .44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world!" and I ended up buying that instead. As you can imagine, the Taurus ended up being a piece of junk that got traded off within a year or two for a loss. If I'd bought the Smith, I'd almost certainly still have it and it would be worth at least twice what I'd paid for it. I don't have too many gun buying/selling decisions that I regret, but that one still burns me every time I think about it.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
And 92fsguy you should pick up a 3rd gen. I love them. Especially their single stacks. 3913. Yum.

I carried a 3913 as my off duty gun for the first several years of my career. The one I owned had been carried by a State Trooper as his off duty gun for much of his career, then he sold it to me, then I sold it to an Oklahoma police officer to continue its off duty LE career.

Great gun, for its time. I mean, it's still a fine gun, but compared to something like a P365 that's smaller, thinner, lighter, and has double the capacity with a better trigger, it's a little lacking.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmo952:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by photohause:
Parts?

This is the argument I usually hear against the 59 series, or Smith third gen pistols in general. Places like Numrich have virtually all the parts you would need.

However, let's face it. They don't break.

I just can't agree with that. Yes, the frame is highly durable and very unlikely to be an issue but there are lots of small parts in those things.

I'm a fan of the 3rd Gen Smith and own or have owned many of them.

I used to shoot them a lot. But it is a myth that they are indestructible. Little things happen and can break when you use them.

In the current environment, it is unlikely any new shooter will be shooting high round counts but if you push the Smiths, things can and do happen.

To be fair, I'm talking about the 3rd gens. I do not have direct experience with the 1st generation. Also, I am talking about the platform as a whole and not specifically the 59** series.

I read the comment often those about the super reliable nature of these guns. They are good guns but based on my experience, things can and do go wrong with them if you shoot them enough.

Opinions vary. Mine is based upon all the guns I was around when KSP issued the 1076. Having data on over a thousand guns, from patrol officers who shoot a thousand rounds a year to SRT that may shoot a thousand rounds a day. The things just don’t break, even with high pressure 10mm rounds without pretty significant wear. CHP has a pretty similar track record. Do they break? Sure. Is it common? Nope.

We had 200+ 6903's for about 8 or 9 years.the only major break we had was one of the guys cracked a frame. gun still functioned.

he had bought a case of cheapo sub gun ammo, HOT stuff. Otherwise really few issues and we qualified 4 times a year.
so we did shoot a few hun dred rds annually or more.

The ONLY SW pistol I'm not a fan of is the 4043. Those guns had issues. In the first 7 years of my career I went through 5 of them. That aluminum frame just wasn't up to the stress of the then new .40 caliber.

Other than that, they seen nigh indestructible. I owned a 5946 for years that had been a service weapon and then had literally countless (seriously close to 10k) rounds put through it afterwards. It got a new recoil spring when it was retired and once when I owned it. When I finally let it go it still functioned like it was new and I honestly can't remember a single failure with it. Thing was an absolute tank.

I still own an early 4046 (the steel framed version of the horrific 4043) that is equally robust. I haven't owned it as long and don't shoot it as much (i just don't keep that much .40 around) but its been perfectly reliable. When I picked it up it looked like it had been dragged behind a truck on a rocky road and was full of gunk. Cleaned it up, lubed the rails, and it's been flawless ever since. I've never replaced so much as a spring on it (other than magazines) and from its condition when I got it I'm sure no one else had either.

Model 59 wouldn't be my first choice, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at it either.

Agree or disagree the fact remains they don't break much. You can have an opinion but that doesn't mean you are right. Look at the people coming in and saying the opposite. Look at Numrich's web page. Only a few parts are out of stock and if you really need it other sources might have it. I do happen to have a number of S&W parts on hand, but as it has already been established by others, I don't see a need to use them. Look also at how many older S&W revolvers are still around and being used for carry guns. Again they don't break much and if they do the parts are around. As are grips and holsters. Stop and think for a few minutes on the long service S&W had as the most common side arm for Law Enforcement. Both revolvers and autos. Disagree all you want, but the truth is older S&W guns are still good to go with no matter what the application.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 4859,

S&W Semi-Auto Pistol Guide
https://www.luckygunner.com/lo...mi-automatic-models/

Gunsmithing S&W 3rd Gen
Part 1 of 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6qUBHIdWX4

This thread made me pull out my CHP turn in 4006. I dare you to try and break it. It’s a solid beast. Those all steel guns aren’t fragile in any way. I tried to say it it before but said it poorly. Most people who say “parts” don’t actually keep spare parts so I wonder if they really worry about it as much as they say. I’m also pretty sure that the limiting factor in parts is $$$$$. There’s always going to be parts if you are motivated.

From my recollection back to about 1990, the stainless-steel framed 4006 was the first pistol to be chambered for the 40 S&W round. The 4006 was designed around that cartridge and I've never heard anything bad about their durability. If the 4006 is a tank that can handle the 40, then the 5906 (same size gun) has to be a super tank that can handle the 9mm.

It's been out of production for 40 years. And we're talking about a new shooter.

If he needs advice/help with this thing from the local gun shop or shooting club, he's going to get blank stares.

Also, the reliability on these 1st gen S&W's is rather different from a modern combat auto. It will probably run great with FMJ, and be picky about the shape of JHP's.

IMO, these are neat guns for someone with plenty of experience. Old school manufacturing, with all its strengths and weaknesses. But not for a beginner.

quote:

I’m also pretty sure that the limiting factor in parts is $$$$$. There’s always going to be parts if you are motivated.

Fair enough but why put a new shooter in that situation?

It will be easier for him/her to go with something current and supported by the manufacturer.

The current crop of service pistols are excellent in terms of shootability and reliability. By any objective criteria, the best of them are really good guns.

I say this as a guy who still has a dozen 952s, a couple of 845s, a couple of CS9s, a PC5903, a PC3953, a 4056 and a Super 9.

I have owned and shot in the past 4566s, a 4563, a 4040PD , a 4013, 4003, 5946, 3906 and a 4006.

I am somewhat familiar with the platform.

Those guns are my itch but not necessarily the best choice for a new shooter in 2020 or 2021.

This is somewhat analogous to buying a 68 Mustang as someone's first car. Sure, it is cool and can be made to work, but why?

Here is a novel thought, the OP can take the newbie to the range and let him shoot one of his vintage 1st Gen Smiths. He can also let him shoot a Sig P320, Walther PPQ, Glock, .... See which one the newbie prefers.

Given the varied success of the 59 with true SD ammo I wouldn’t hesitate to own one at the right price, but certainly wouldn’t make it my go-to for CCW or home defense. It might be unbreakable tank, but wouldn’t be my first choice by far.