For 4 major brands what are some of the things that they have done right and what should they improve? Please be aware my pros and cons are purely my opinion and subjective.

S&W M&PLine
PROS: Reliable, Large handgun line, Great customer support, Easy to break in

Things To Improve
Durability like Glocks, Reduce space between frame and slide, Better aesthetics

Glocks
PROS
Reliable and durable, Easy to work on, Great aftermarket support

Things To Improve
Less angled grip
Heavier weight models (for those of us who like heavier guns and reduced recoil)
(secretly I wish Glocks worked for me and thus I would own many)

SIG
PROS
Reliable, Reduced recoil, Accurate, Large handgun line

Things To Improve
Better durability like Glocks, Stop using customers as beta testing
Learn how the West Germans made their SIGS and then do the same

H&K
PROS
Reliable, durable, and very accurate, Great machining and aesthetics

Things To Improve
Larger DA/SA handgun line, Less arrogant customer support

To your HK point I would add...
Better DA/SA stock triggers

I have never needed to send an HK product back for anything but have dealt with their customer support folks via phone and email a few times and they have been nothing short of stellar in every way.

I feel like they caught so much, rightfully tossed flak, for how they used to treat customers that they took it to heart and righted things a full 180 degrees.

As for Glock
I just wish they would mold a better feeling grip ala HK,Walther,Smith. The angle isn’t a huge deal but something that felt more designed for actual human hands.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
To your HK point I would add...
Better DA/SA stock triggers

I have never needed to send an HK product back for anything but have dealt with their customer support folks via phone and email a few times and they have been nothing short of stellar in every way.

I feel like they caught so much, rightfully tossed flak, for how they used to treat customers that they took it to heart and righted things a full 180 degrees.

As for Glock
I just wish they would mold a better feeling grip ala HK,Walther,Smith. The angle isn’t a huge deal but something that felt more designed for actual human hands.

I agree with you completely cslinger. I forgot how bad is my P30L trigger and Glock's grip. I would have mentioned Glock's grips but I did not want the Glock-a-alholics shamming in when I go to the range or a restaurant.

Things to fix:

HK: make 'simple' as a theme to live by. To their engineers, stop trying to channel your Swiss watchmaking skills...or acting like you work for Audi. Making the guns simpler is definitely NOT a bad thing.

SIG: make nice with Frau Merkel and start importing German guns back into the U.S. Too much has been said about the whole 'beta testing' with early adopters already...just get a clue and change your ways. I will say congrats when it comes to the P210A, though; seems you got THAT one right (for once).

S&W: stop calling that poor excuse of a custom shop the 'Performance Center', dump the infernal lock on revolvers and make Job 1 reliability and durability for the M&P pistol lineup. I'm getting tired of sending back flawed NIB PC guns and having to make excuses to customers when Shield slide stops have such a tough time engaging and locking back their slides.

Glock: stay away from Cerakote. Forgo the stupid Gen5 half moon cutout; you didn't need it on the Gen3 and 4 guns, what makes you think that the need mysteriously comes back simply because the finger grooves are gone? Ship ALL guns with STEEL SIGHTS. Me, I like the goal posts when I don't need tritium. I'd like them even better if they came in steel, standard equipment. Rethink your slide serrations; more aggressive is NOT a bad thing, which is why I miss your fish gills of the original RTF2 guns. Learn how to make the trigger lockup lever seat flush when disengaged. Multiple aftermarket trigger makers, CZ and many others have figured it out; why the hell can't you?

S&W- Actually not a ton of complaints that would be realistic. I really like the 2.0 but a few more QC checks would probably be good. If I had to make one change I'd like to not have to remove the rear sight to access some of the fire control parts. Also make your push pins more like Glock where they come out without a hammer.

Sig- QC, definately QC. I cant even think past that because its such a glaring issue. ANd my Sigs work but there are alot of tales of those that dont and they are documented. Otherwise yes I'd like either Swiss guns or bring American Sig quality up to Swiss quality. Maybe a pro grade that costs more but is made with the best materials.

Great designs, great innovation but the QC needs to be there or its worthless.

HK- A little overcomplicated on the inside. In fairness, they seem to work but theres alot of little parts. I picked up a VP9T and it didnt run suppressed. I havent had that problem with any Sig out of the box or used. I love that they still have the paddle mag. I generally find them to be reliable and accurate. The grip plates is a great idea. Especially that I can build it thick on one side and skinny on the other.

Glock- I'm not a fan overall of the Gen 5 changes. I'll leave finger grooves and cutout alone since those are individual taste but I do not like the new finish. I'm not sure what a two pin gun will look like over a long timespan. Its slippery which is not how I want my slide. I'd like to see some half grips for those of us who are not fans of the grip angle.

I love the reliability and design. I love that I can service the whole gun with a punch unless we are talking sight replacement. I feel very taken care of by the LE/Mil program and factory warranty repair programs. I send something stripped and get all new parts? Yes please.

quote:

H&K
PROS
Reliable, durable, and very accurate, Great machining and aesthetics

Things To Improve
Larger DA/SA handgun line, Less arrogant customer support

Huh?
Everything is DA/SA except the VP9 series unless you want a model in LEM

Nailed it!

quote:

Originally posted by soggy_spinout:
Things to fix:

HK: make 'simple' as a theme to live by. To their engineers, stop trying to channel your Swiss watchmaking skills...or acting like you work for Audi. Making the guns simpler is definitely NOT a bad thing.

SIG: make nice with Frau Merkel and start importing German guns back into the U.S. Too much has been said about the whole 'beta testing' with early adopters already...just get a clue and change your ways. I will say congrats when it comes to the P210A, though; seems you got THAT one right (for once).

S&W: stop calling that poor excuse of a custom shop the 'Performance Center', dump the infernal lock on revolvers and make Job 1 reliability and durability for the M&P pistol lineup. I'm getting tired of sending back flawed NIB PC guns and having to make excuses to customers when Shield slide stops have such a tough time engaging and locking back their slides.

Glock: stay away from Cerakote. Forgo the stupid Gen5 half moon cutout; you didn't need it on the Gen3 and 4 guns, what makes you think that the need mysteriously comes back simply because the finger grooves are gone? Ship ALL guns with STEEL SIGHTS. Me, I like the goal posts when I don't need tritium. I'd like them even better if they came in steel, standard equipment. Rethink your slide serrations; more aggressive is NOT a bad thing, which is why I miss your fish gills of the original RTF2 guns. Learn how to make the trigger lockup lever seat flush when disengaged. Multiple aftermarket trigger makers, CZ and many others have figured it out; why the hell can't you?

Agree with glocks coming out of the gate with steel sights. Make the frame more modular ala vp9, create two front strap inserts that allow flat or no finger grooves.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig Dale:

quote:

H&K
PROS
Reliable, durable, and very accurate, Great machining and aesthetics

Things To Improve
Larger DA/SA handgun line, Less arrogant customer support

Huh?
Everything is DA/SA except the VP9 series unless you want a model in LEM

Yes but not updated in DA/SA - USP, P2000, P30, etc. Models came out years and decades ago. Compare to SIG with new models and variations frequently.

HK hammer fired triggers can be dramatically improved with about $12 in springs. A lighter hammer spring and the newer HK lighter firing pin block spring.

HK hammer fired pistols were designed for military or agency contracts and I don't see HK making changes to the trigger groups on existing models. They also offer the inexpensive match kit for USP models and the Tactical models already have it installed.

quote:

H&K
Things To Improve
Less arrogant customer support

Is this personal experience, or just repeating old stories? Too many people here have reported great customer service.

NB: I have one HK firearm-a 93 rifle. So I'm not a fanboi with dozens of their firearms.

HK- basic striker, true G19 size, thin. USP update, less bulky. Poly P7-think Hk quality Walther CCP.

Sig- redesign the sigpro line small, med, large, SRT. Hold beta testing. Give Ron Cohen back to Kimber, use German Engineers instead of kids just out of school.

S&W- more revos!

quote:

Originally posted by sox:
HK- basic striker, true G19 size, thin. USP update, less bulky. Poly P7-think Hk quality Walther CCP.

Sig- redesign the sigpro line small, med, large, SRT. Hold beta testing. Give Ron Cohen back to Kimber, use German Engineers instead of kids just out of school.

S&W- more revos!

Glock- change grip angle, thin the whole design, use metal mags for pete sakes.

S&W,

classic revolvers, make them actually a nice blue like in the past, not that deep finish polished black,,

just don't look right,

and the grips the rubber that feels ok, but the wood grips need help,,

S&W instead of bringing out new models only in that horrid stainless offer them in blued I would even live with a flat parkerized type finish. I simply hate silver guns!
A blued 617 and 986 would be nice of my dream a 919 six shot moon clip K frame blued.

quote:

Originally posted by sox:
HK- Poly P7-think Hk quality Walther CCP.

^^^^^^^^^^
THIS!!!!!!

S&W - Went out of business in 2001. I could care less what the current company posing as s&w do.

Sig - Improve the level of production and delivery of products you excited the gun buying public about almost a year ago. Give us some product to sell!

Glock - Make the 19X in black. And give us a slim, reliable single stack in 40 and 45. NO the 36 is NOT reliable enough.

HK - Better DA/SA trigger pulls. And make a small single stack. In ANY caliber.

Regards 18DAI

quote:

Originally posted by Opus Dei:

quote:

H&K
Things To Improve
Less arrogant customer support

Is this personal experience, or just repeating old stories? Too many people here have reported great customer service.

NB: I have one HK firearm-a 93 rifle. So I'm not a fanboi with dozens of their firearms.

Personal Experience. When I called several times they acted like I was disturbing them from their dinner.

quote:

Originally posted by captain127:
S&W instead of bringing out new models only in that horrid stainless offer them in blued I would even live with a flat parkerized type finish. I simply hate silver guns!
A blued 617 and 986 would be nice of my dream a 919 six shot moon clip K frame blued.

Thanks Captain 127, someone finally agrees with me about silver guns. The only person who looked good with silver guns was the "Lone Ranger."

^^^ If you've got room on the couch, let me slide on in. The biggest news in revolvers for me lately has been the various blued 5" GP100s that Ruger and Lipsey's have been bringing out. Ruger made big news a few decades back when they figured out a commercially viable way to mass-produce stainless steel revolvers, and the gun rags touted them as one of the biggest things since the indexing pawl. Now stainless steel has been so ubiquitous for so long that coming across any blued DA revolver seems like kind of a treat to me.

Then again, I've actually had SIG Nitron a stainless steel slide. It didn't come out bad or great (which is just what SIG told me would happen), but I'll probably wind up doing it again.