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Picture of Rick Lee
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Looking at a bulk deal on .357SIG ammo, Remington CTP lead-free, jacketless. Looks like 100gr, but I've never heard of something that light. What's it like? Are indoor ranges cool with this? Will it be ok in my P226?
 
Posts: 1979 | Location: Cave Creek, AZ | Registered: October 24, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Some indoor ranges require it. I wouldn't use it for anything besides target practice.
 
Posts: 20057 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lost
Picture of kkina
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It's lighter than normal 357SIG because the bullets are made of sintered copper/tin powder rather than lead (CTF = Copper Tin Frangible).

Light frangibles tend to be pretty zippy with low recoil, and are usually very accurate.

Indoor ranges usually love non-heavy metal ammo, as they eliminate toxic metal contamination, but check with your range. Of course the ideal use for frangibles is steel targets.



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Posts: 13623 | Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: December 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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there are some designed for HD / duty / SD

https://www.shootingillustrate...f-frangible-bullets/

i read a book recently where the SEAL author said they loaded it in mags during combat Ops on some occasions

https://www.amazon.com/Last-Pu...Battle/dp/1501127268

---------------------------------------------


Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
 
Posts: 8028 | Location: Florida | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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quote:
Originally posted by Sig209:
there are some designed for HD / duty / SD


Marketed for defensive use, perhaps.

I don't know of any "defensive" frangible ammo that is able to achieve the FBI standard of 12-18 inches of penetration in ballistic gel through various intermediate barriers. But there may be some out there.


During the 1980s or so, there was a brief spike of interest in the use of frangible ammo for Air Marshals and during things like hostage rescues, but that quickly died out.

Nowadays, it's basically exclusively used for training, especially in situations like live fire shoothouses and with close-range steel targets where spalling and ricochets are a concern.
 
Posts: 25344 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Rick Lee
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When I took my NV CCW class, the range required us to use their ammo, which was all frangible. I brought my P226 in .357SIG and P239 in .40. I don't remember the recoil being any lighter, but it was about 10 years ago. Anyway, I came into a great deal on a bunch of frangible ammo locally, so I'll grab it and use at the indoor range. I have a lot of Speer Gold Dots for HD/SD, but don't like burning through them at the range too much.
 
Posts: 1979 | Location: Cave Creek, AZ | Registered: October 24, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lost
Picture of kkina
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I actually like frangible because of its low penetration. I think it's an important consideration when living in a multiple unit building. I don't want to hit a neighbor.



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Posts: 13623 | Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: December 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've been looking into frangibles too since I moved into a new residence with neighbors really close in every direction.
 
Posts: 4 | Registered: March 13, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Most of it is really dirty, expensive and so-so accurate.




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Posts: 34263 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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If we’re going to rely on frangible ammunition to limit over-penetration through building materials, it’s important to be sure that that’s a valid belief. Most such composite bullets are designed to disintegrate when they hit steel targets, not necessarily when they encounter wood or other building materials. There may be some tests out there that answer that question, but keep in mind that the bullets must withstand the tremendous stress of being fired—the shock, friction, and huge g-forces—and therefore may be more cohesive than we might think.

Whenever this subject comes up, I am reminded of a quotation by one of our especially esteemed and knowledgeable members:
“I think the bottom line in my experience is don’t pick the best round by what the best round to miss with is.”
jljones




“The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
— Bertrand Russell
 
Posts: 42268 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lost
Picture of kkina
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It's also about reducing ricochet danger when bouncing off harder building materials (steel, concrete, marble, even glass).

It is true that many so-called frangibles cut right through drywall, but there's also some that perform as expected.



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"Pen & Sword as One"
 
Posts: 13623 | Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: December 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
Picture of MikeinNC
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When the CG switched to the Sig in 40s&w we were issued two kinds of ammo for training.
180 grain hp for duty ammo and 160 frangible for training. Many of the units up north were using indoor ranges and were restricted to frangible only. The differing weights had a huge (8”) difference in point of aim and point of impact. Scoring really suffered. Initially we instructors were told to have the trainee aim higher when using the frangible ammo...eventually we managed to have th5e guys shoot center of mass and we adjusted with scoring.

Also, the frangible ammo was easily damaged....many times upon opening a new box of ammo rounds had sheared at the case mouth....over the long run we had to spend more time with training with frangible ammo. It’s more expensive as you know. And every now and then a round would break while in the magazine during firing...other rounds further down the magazine might separate and gum up the works.

I certainly would not use frangible for anything in my life. I can procure good ammo and not have any of the issues that I saw and encountered when we were issued it.

Now I know federal fixed the issues somehow, but I wouldn’t use it.



"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers

 
Posts: 7364 | Location: Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Fangible ammo is a great choice for home defense when you're super concerned about penetrating a wall and harming an innocent bystander. Even if its penetration is inferior to that of a JHP, you may believe the additional safety is well worth it. Just make sure not to fire frangible bullets through a suppressor. They may fragment on exiting the muzzle to damage it!


We believe arming our fellow Americans – both physically and philosophically – helps them fulfill our Founding Fathers' intent with the Second Amendment: To serve as a check on state power.
 
Posts: 38 | Registered: January 10, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of RichardC
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I used up more than 2000 rounds of LE surplus Speer frangible
100gr 357 Sig a few years ago.

Its purpose was safe training using steel targets in close proximity. It was marked to not be used for anything but training.

It functioned well, and hit to same point of aim as my regular 357 Sig ammo, at fifty feet. Which was it's purpose. I don't know about longer distances. It cost me 22 cents per round.

I was very happy with it, and wish I had bought several thousand more.

I will always regret not saving a few to chronograph out of my CZ TS with the 5 1/4 " barrel.


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Posts: 11663 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 23, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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The report of a test of frangible bullets against common building material.

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/6910075274




“The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
— Bertrand Russell
 
Posts: 42268 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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