quote:

Originally posted by 45 Cal:
Let me tell you a little embarrassing story,I shoot every week in basement,I get back upstairs in kitchen and reload the 1911 with factory win silver tips.This is a routeen I have done for years,Well a few month back I did as I usually do,Drop one in the pipe,let the hammer down to half cock and slam a full 8 round Wilson mag in the weapon. BAM ,shot my refrigerator. The round went thru four layers of steel and stopped in a five pound of corn meal
Bottom line ,just how much penetration do you want,thank goodness the meal finally stopped the slug cause there was a glass door on the other side.

So was that a new fridge the wife and I saw or was I just not paying attention to the patch job you had done to your poor chill chest?

What is it with Winchester Siltertips and AD's?
I had my one (and hopefully only) AD with my Commander after I had a trigger job done I racked the slide as I hit the mag release at the same time and one managed to get chambered. I know to always rack the slide TWICE but I didn't. I am glad it was a "soft" holow point like the Silvertip though as I pointed the gun at the concrete floor and handed it to my brother to "test" out the new trigger pull and BAM. The round disentigrated into the concrete and left a very small crater. No one was injured and man I learned my lesson after that.

Sorry BB, that one has nothing to do w/ the WWSTHP, that one was on you.

quote:

Originally posted by 45 Cal:
Let me tell you a little embarrassing story,I shoot every week in basement,I get back upstairs in kitchen and reload the 1911 with factory win silver tips.This is a routeen I have done for years,Well a few month back I did as I usually do,Drop one in the pipe,let the hammer down to half cock and slam a full 8 round Wilson mag in the weapon. BAM ,shot my refrigerator. The round went thru four layers of steel and stopped in a five pound of corn meal
Bottom line ,just how much penetration do you want,thank goodness the meal finally stopped the slug cause there was a glass door on the other side.

How much volume of corn meal did the slug displace? Where you able to get cavity measurements?

quote:

Originally posted by signoir:

quote:

Originally posted by 45 Cal:
Let me tell you a little embarrassing story,I shoot every week in basement,I get back upstairs in kitchen and reload the 1911 with factory win silver tips.This is a routeen I have done for years,Well a few month back I did as I usually do,Drop one in the pipe,let the hammer down to half cock and slam a full 8 round Wilson mag in the weapon. BAM ,shot my refrigerator. The round went thru four layers of steel and stopped in a five pound of corn meal
Bottom line ,just how much penetration do you want,thank goodness the meal finally stopped the slug cause there was a glass door on the other side.

How much volume of corn meal did the slug displace? Where you able to get cavity measurements?

Well Signor;the bag was sideways ,bullet went in the end and stopped near the other end.The entrance point exploded like a grenade .Meal in the top to bottom ,Had to unload the freezer to clean every inch of it.I sure am glad it did not hit the five pound of flower

quote:

Originally posted by detroit192:

quote:

Originally posted by 45 Cal:
Let me tell you a little embarrassing story,I shoot every week in basement,I get back upstairs in kitchen and reload the 1911 with factory win silver tips.This is a routeen I have done for years,Well a few month back I did as I usually do,Drop one in the pipe,let the hammer down to half cock and slam a full 8 round Wilson mag in the weapon. BAM ,shot my refrigerator. The round went thru four layers of steel and stopped in a five pound of corn meal
Bottom line ,just how much penetration do you want,thank goodness the meal finally stopped the slug cause there was a glass door on the other side.

So was that a new fridge the wife and I saw or was I just not paying attention to the patch job you had done to your poor chill chest?

And you thought fishing corks were for fishing. Also those little magnets have other uses also.

quote:

Originally posted by IndridCold:
No, Massad Ayoob is wrrrrrrrooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaannnggggggg!!!!!!!

Now, THAT post was on topic!

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:

quote:

Originally posted by IndridCold:
No, Massad Ayoob is wrrrrrrrooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaannnggggggg!!!!!!!

Now, THAT post was on topic!

Richard;educate me on the ayoob ,I don't get the gun rags and the name keep popping up like he is some kind of guru.
I am just and old man the has been tenkering with guns and ammo from the time I was a boy in the fifty's.

Massad F. Ayoob is a part time police officer who has written extensively on Friearms and Self-Defense issues. He runs a training facility, Lethal Force Institute. He has also been an Expert Witness in a number of court cases. Here is an online complitation of some of his columns, http://www.backwoodshome.com/ayoob_index.html. As with all Experts in this field he has his fans and critics.

I carry an 11mm eargesplitten loudenbooomer.

To shoot anything less means you are a sissy girl.

quote:

I carry an 11mm eargesplitten loudenbooomer.

To shoot anything less means you are a sissy girl.

With the terminal ballistics of a tactical nuke, thats what I'm talkin about. 9mm is for sissy men and old ladies.

I am right up there with you on my new 460 Rowland,dang thing got some bite even on the starting loads

I love the 357 sig round and always will. Its up there about 50/50 with my Kimber in 45 as my daily carry. Is it superior than the 45? We will never know until we have the same testing done on it as has been done with the 45.

The cadavar testing and when the 45 replaced the 38 and soldiers were stopping the savages all doped up from charging down the hill with one shot??? Hell that was old bullet technology and ball ammo.

Superior to the old trusted and proven 45? Probably not, lethal, well hell yes. I carry on in place of my 45 at times. Depends on what mood I am in and looking at my sceen name, I am a big boar hoar.

Terminal ballistic tests are like, well, you know: everybody has one.

In gel through through auto glass:

Texas DPS test:

125/357 Speer GD: 13 inches/.55 caliber

San Angelo TX PD test:

180/40 Speer GD 15.25/.51
230/45 Speer GD 15.5/.65

Doc GKR test:

124/9 +P Speer GD 11.5/.52
125/357 Speer GD 13.8/.50
155/40 Speer GD 12/.55
230/45 Speer GD 11.5/.66

In gel through heavy cloth, FBI tests:

124/9 GD 17.5/.51
124/9 +P GD 20.25/.53
147/9 GD 14.7/.55
125/357 GD 19/.54
155/40 GD 18.1/.57
165/40 GD 15.8/.60
180/40 GD 17.5/.60
185/45 GD 14.7/.68
200/45 +P GD 18.8/.55
230/45 GD 18.9/.59

I have seen numerous tests that show there is a difference in terminal ballistics between them.

What I have not seen is proof that difference makes as much a diference in the way some think it does.

Texas and New Mexico troopers used the 45 ACP from 92 to 97/99, switched to the 357SIG. Most (not all) I have talked to think the 357 "stops" better. They shot lottsa people w both; that's good enough for me. YMMV.

I have no idea if (pick one) is clearly superior to (pick another), but the 357 sure looks like at least another good choice to me.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BrokenArrow,

quote:

Originally posted by 45 Cal:

quote:

Originally posted by Mrs_Esterhouse:
357sig is better at barrier pennetration vs the 45acp. 45acp has the advantage if shooting directly with no barriers (like car doors, etc). Test results:

TEST

Let me tell you a little embarrassing story,I shoot every week in basement,I get back upstairs in kitchen and reload the 1911 with factory win silver tips.This is a routeen I have done for years,Well a few month back I did as I usually do,Drop one in the pipe,let the hammer down to half cock and slam a full 8 round Wilson mag in the weapon. BAM ,shot my refrigerator. The round went thru four layers of steel and stopped in a five pound of corn meal
Bottom line ,just how much penetration do you want,thank goodness the meal finally stopped the slug cause there was a glass door on the other side.

That was a one shot stop on a GE!

The .357 sig has its merits, but I think I nice big +P .45 230g HST still wins out for most non-barrier confrontations.

The edge always go to the larger diameter bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by Ogie:....And if you are ever confronted with a bad guy wearing a test tube wax/water vest, you will be equipped with the superior round.

And if you tell him so, he will probably drop his weapon and surrender.

The first three rules of retailing AND defensive shooting are:

1 - location
2 - location
3 - location

When considering the modern full power defensive handgun rounds, seems to me the particular round is way down the line of factors that determine the outcome of an encounter.

I prefer CCW with a 20 round mag of .50 BMG, that way I never have to second guess.

quote:

Originally posted by johornp228:

quote:

Originally posted by GrandPotter:
Oh no, not this again?

I feel the same way. Let see how About you shoot your right foot with a 357 sig and the other with a 45. then you will know for sure. Wont you?

If only! It wouldn't be an accurate test because the subject could have been putting more weight on either foot, thus altering the outcome of the test! i agree, ridiculous.

quote:

Originally posted by 45 Cal:


Let me tell you a little embarrassing story,I shoot every week in basement,I get back upstairs in kitchen and reload the 1911 with factory win silver tips.This is a routeen I have done for years,Well a few month back I did as I usually do,Drop one in the pipe,let the hammer down to half cock and slam a full 8 round Wilson mag in the weapon. BAM ,shot my refrigerator. The round went thru four layers of steel and stopped in a five pound of corn meal
Bottom line ,just how much penetration do you want,thank goodness the meal finally stopped the slug cause there was a glass door on the other side.

So if I encounter zombies clad in armor made of corn meal bags I should use my .357 SIG?

Are we there yet?