The title says it all. I'm currently using 125gr Remington JHPs, however I have my eyes out considering other brands.

I'll be loading these into my CCW gun, ( 239 ) and my truck gun, ( 226 )

What say you, members of ye old SIGforum?

125 grain Speer GoldDots, full power loads if you can find them, or the "limited penetration" loads that are more common if you can not. I have been impressed with the enginerring Speer seems to put in the GoldDot line. Other hollow points seem to be the same general shape no matter the caliber or load. The comparison can be seen really well between say the 357SIG load (shallow, almost more of a truncated cone than a hollow point) and the .40S&W Short Barrel GoldDot (almost vertical sides on the hollow point ending in a flat bottom cavity). Speer seems to tailor the bullet to the velocity, caliber and mass. I would bet even the jacket thickness varies with each caliber and load.

Now if someone reliable loaded say the all copper Barnes type bullet in 357SIG I might be tempted to look...

One could only imagine the velocity...

+1 to what Detroit said

The full power GoldDots have been accurate and reliable, and Speer has the velocity of the 54234 load listed as a little hotter than any of their primary competition.

My CCW is also a P239. I like the 125gr JHP loads form Speer, very good accuracy, good street record. Other rounds that I have tested & work great sre the Rem. 125grGS bonded & the Win. 125gr RangerSXT. All make 1300fps+ in my P239 & all will shoot into 1 1/2" @ 15yds. THE Rem.GSB is the fastest load in my P239 @ 1330fps.

Another vote for the Gold Dots, but just based on reputation honestly. I'm happy to say I haven't had to test them personally!

Gents,

I've had good luck with Rainier 124 Gr. truncated cone bullets, AA #9, Winch Small Pistol Primer, and Speer cases. Perhaps the cleanest handload I've ever produced.
For serious stuff I use the Winchester Ranger 125 Gr.SXT load (RA357SIGT). Winchester markets it for Law Enforcement only, but that's a corporate policy. It can be found.
I've gotten 1,360 FPS from my SIG P226 and converted Hi-Power. One reason I chose this load was it's performance through barriers...penetration and it still performs with controlled expansion in test medium and flesh.
If not able to get the Winchester load the Speer 125 Gr. Gold Dot would be my next choice.

Wes

Another vote for Gold Dots. They work every time in my 229 and 226 and are very accurate.

Doubletap 125gr Gold dots, I figure that in any gun with a short barrel, the more velocity you have to start with, the better.

I use Speer Gold Dots. They are the full power police loads. I didn't know there were 'reduced penetration' .357SIGs.

The ones I get are from Streicher's in Plymouth, MN. It's a police supply shop and they have a web site. The ammunition comes in 50 round boxes and the price for fifty is not much more than Cabela's price for the 20 or so under powered ones in the be-bop boxes.

Regards, Porkie

Well, it seems that the Speer GDs pretty much have it. Thanks for all your posts and info everyone.

I hear ya, detroit192, I would be VERY interested in seeing a 100% copper Barnes style bullet in .357 SIG. I just bought two boxes of Corbon's 160gr .45 DPX rounds. They're certainly impressive to look at.

However, at $34 per box of 20rnds , I'm just about ready to crawl under my house to scavenge all the copper pipes and melt them down to make more of them!

quote:

Originally posted by Porkie:
I use Speer Gold Dots. They are the full power police loads. I didn't know there were 'reduced penetration' .357SIGs.

The ones I get are from Streicher's in Plymouth, MN. It's a police supply shop and they have a web site. The ammunition comes in 50 round boxes and the price for fifty is not much more than Cabela's price for the 20 or so under powered ones in the be-bop boxes.

Regards, Porkie

FWIW, the ammo in the 20rd boxes is the ame as the 50rd LEA ammo. They are not loaded hotter. If you want max effort GD, get the DoubleTap ammo. Same price & 50-75fps more vel.

Speer lists the 23918 (20 round box) at 1375 fps, and the 53918 (LP load in 50 round box) at 1350 fps. The 54234 (50 round box) lists at 1375 fps.

Clear as mud, eh?

FWIW, in FBI tests the old load penetrated 16 inches of bare gel, in DHS tests the new LP load penetrated 14.7 inches of bare gel.

Fred: You're right about the horsepower of the Gold Dot police loads. I got confused over the Federal EFMJ that I also get from Streicher's for 9mm, ,40 and .45. Cabela's EFMJ in be-bop boxes is lighter loaded and more expensive.

Sorry for the senior moment and the off topic comment to recover.

Porkie

quote:

Originally posted by BrokenArrow:
Speer lists the 23918 (20 round box) at 1375 fps, and the 53918 (LP load in 50 round box) at 1350 fps. The 54234 (50 round box) lists at 1375 fps.

Clear as mud, eh?

FWIW, in FBI tests the old load penetrated 16 inches of bare gel, in DHS tests the new LP load penetrated 14.7 inches of bare gel.

I'm sure it's lot to lot variations. Either way, the Speer GD is a great round as is the Rem.GS & WWSXT.

125 Gold dots are what I also carry. I have also carried Winchester 125gr. SXT, but these are not "bonded" like the Gold dot...

This report from the Virginia Institute of Forensic Science and Medicine says they are different bullets:

Speer 357 SIG Cartridge Improvements
A Technical Report

Amy A. Zahradka, VIFSM Fellow '02 and Ann L. Davis, Virginia Division of Forensic Science
Richmond, Virginia

ABSTRACT
A local police department found that their stock of 357 SIG ammunition was not all the same, even though it had been purchased under identical specifications. This article identifies a new cartridge headstamp and examines the variations available in Speer 357 SIG Gold Dot 125 grain hollow point ammunition.

While working on a police shooting case, it came to our attention that the ammunition submitted as standard issue was different from the fired cartridge cases recovered at the scene. When the police department was questioned about the discrepancy, personnel discovered that their stock of ammunition was not all the same. Although Speer 357 SIG Gold Dot 125 grain hollow point ammunition was ordered, cartridges from box to box looked different and product numbers varied. After discussing the matter with a development engineer at Blount, it was found that up to four types might currently be available on distributorsÿ shelves.

Product Improvements
An unusual semi-automatic handgun cartridge, the 357 SIG has a bottleneck case and operates at a high chamber pressure, up to 5,000 psi greater than some 357 Magnum loadings. Speer introduced their version in 1996 and made improvements in 1999 as a response to feedback they received.

It seems that the nickel-plated primers were causing a problem for some Sigarms handguns. During obturation, the high chamber pressure forced the primer cup into the breech face firing pin aperture. As the pistol unlocked, dropping the barrel, pieces of the cup metal occasionally sheared off into the recess. These shavings restricted the firing pinÿs movement, subsequently causing misfires. Speer reduced the size of the flash hole and switched to a plain brass primer to eliminate this problem.

Changes to the bullet were also incorporated. The bullet was given a larger nose radius to improve feeding, and the profile was changed to allow for more clearance in the chamber. The jacket thickness was increased by 0.007" to optimize performance through a wider range of velocities.

The improved ammunition was initially released on March 1, 1999 and is distinguished with a sideways "s" (called a "Lazy s") on the headstamp.

Two Product Numbers
Product number discrepancy is another issue. Two part numbers, 54234 and 53918 (or 23918 for boxes of 20), are currently available. Before the change in 1999, the only difference between them was that 54234 was mouth sealed. During the upgrade, it was decided that both should be mouth sealed to prevent bullet movement in the bottleneck case. At the same time, two new hollow point cavities were designed. The hollow point for 54234 was designed to duplicate the expansion and penetration characteristics of the original style, while 53918 was designed to decrease penetration by one to two inches. In order to make recoil more manageable, the powder charge in 53918 was reduced by 0.2 grains, resulting in an average velocity drop of 25 feet per second.

Conclusion
With both products available in either of two possible configurations, a total of four versions of the Speer 357 SIG Gold Dot 125 grain hollow point cartridges may still be in circulation. Although one type may not appear drastically different from another, it is important to understand the variations available.

Acknowledgment
We would like to extend a special thanks to Engineer Steve Moore of Blount for his assistance and cooperation in researching this article.

References
1. Product specifications and correspondence from Steve Moore, Development Engineer for Blount Inc. (CCI/Speer Division)
2. Barnes, F.C. and McPherson, M.L. (ed.), Cartridges of the World, 8th Edition, Krause Publications, Northfield, IL, 1997



Fig. 3: Original hollow point cavity (left), new 53918 (center), and new 54234 (right)

FWIW, the bullets in my 23918 look like the 53918 to me.

for personal defense I use

Federal
Speer
SXT
Hornady
...JHP's

For targets I use

Remington
WWB
...FMJ's

Thanks for posting that report, BrokenArrow! Very informative.

quote:

It seems that the nickel-plated primers were causing a problem for some Sigarms handguns. During obturation, the high chamber pressure forced the primer cup into the breech face firing pin aperture. As the pistol unlocked, dropping the barrel, pieces of the cup metal occasionally sheared off into the recess. These shavings restricted the firing pinÿs movement, subsequently causing misfires. Speer reduced the size of the flash hole and switched to a plain brass primer to eliminate this problem.

That's related to one of the problems that lead to the recall of several million rounds of Speer ammo in various calibers produced between Sept 01 and March 02. That ammo was "reclassified". Much of it was repackaged in loose packs of 250 rounds.

Other lots of ammo before and since were reclassified for other reasons. Some are marked w stickers/stamps on every box, and some just on the cases the boxes came in. Some is good enough to bet your life on, and some is not. As Speer cautioned at the time:

"The ammunition that has been reclassified somehow failed to meet a contract stipulation. It is safe to shoot. Most is likely suitable for defensive use, but it would depend on the exact problem. A large quantity fell out for poor nickel plating on the cases. This nickel plating would not compromise the use of the ammunition, but flaking could present functional problems. Inspection of the ammunition you have should be able to determine if there is any worry in that regard. Other lots were reclassified for other reasons. In general I feel it is best to use it for practice and to prove functioning in the gun and stay with ammunition that was not reclassified for actual carry."
- Guy Neill, Blount Sporting Equipment Group

Well folks, I finally jumped on the Speer band wagon and snatched up eight, 20rnd boxes of 125gr GDs for my .357 SIGs.

Got what I thought was a good price for them, ( 23918s ) @ $14.00 per box. I just about cleaned out this shop of their .357 SIG GDs. They only have four more boxes left, and I'm snagging those four up tomorrow.

Once again, thanks to everyone in this thread for the great info!