In general, heavier bullets travel slower and lighter bullets travel faster (obviously) for a given caliber. I believe that the loads are developed to keep the pressures within a specific range that is designed into the cartridge. The ballistic data for specific bullets usually show that the energy levels for lighter, faster bullets exceeds that of heavier, slower bullets. I have always been with the school of thought that states "the heavier bullet translates into better stopping power". I have heard stories about light and fast bullets that go all the way through a target (bad guy) but don't stop the threat because the energy was not transfered efficiently. I have also heard the stories about a big, fat, 230gr .45ACP hitting the target in the hand and knocking them down. Now, with the advent of high tech bullets of various weights that reliably expand and transfer their energy at various speeds, does the old school of thought still hold true? Would you now want the bullet with the most muzzle energy (ie lighter, faster)? I reload my own ammo to practice with so it becomes important to choose the weight of the reloads to match the weight of the carry rounds. Any thoughts??

quote:

Originally posted by DozerDog:
Any thoughts??

Yes, but I'll keep them to myself. Good luck!

SOme where between BS & fact lies the truth. Energy numbers mean very little for handgun rounds. The bullets construction has more to do with terminal performance than pure bullet wt. or muzzle vel. The reason high vel. loads typically have more energy is the energy numbers increase exponetially w/ the increase of vel.
LIght & fast can be devistating as long as the bullet is constructed to hold together & reach vitals. Without that, the "energy" is wasted & just causes a surface wound. High vel. bullets that fail to expand can exit & leave small wound channels. This is what causes failure to stop, not wasted energy.
Me, I like middle range bullet wts. going fast. As long as the bullet has enough mass to penetrate, some expansion is good. Forget about being impressed w/ exploding gals of water, a person is not a gal of water. Placement, penetration & expansion in that order.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
SOme where between BS & fact lies the truth. Energy numbers mean very little for handgun rounds. The bullets construction has more to do with terminal performance than pure bullet wt. or muzzle vel. The reason high vel. loads typically have more energy is the energy numbers increase exponetially w/ the increase of vel.
LIght & fast can be devistating as long as the bullet is constructed to hold together & reach vitals. Without that, the "energy" is wasted & just causes a surface wound. High vel. bullets that fail to expand can exit & leave small wound channels. This is what causes failure to stop, not wasted energy.
Me, I like middle range bullet wts. going fast. As long as the bullet has enough mass to penetrate, some expansion is good. Forget about being impressed w/ exploding gals of water, a person is not a gal of water. Placement, penetration & expansion in that order.

...or a wet phone book...

Doesn't matter. Whichever expands to the largest diameter while penetrating 12-18" is going to be the best bet over-all. Energy and velocity don't mena a darn thing at handgun levels unless you are talking about shooting through a car door, then it matters, but for animals, permanent crush-cavity is THE most predictor of effectiveness for projectiles traveling under 2,000 fps or so.

I posed this same question on KahrTalk and got response from lv2tinker that included the link Best Choice for Self Defense Ammo. Pretty good read with lots of interesting links for further info. Seems to me to be a credible source.

I prefer on target and reliable.

Caliber doesn't mean shit if you can't hit your target.

Translation, whatever you carry will work if used properly. Get a quality firearm, and get quality training.

Kevin

quote:

Originally posted by KevinCW:
...whatever you carry will work if used properly. Get a quality firearm, and get quality training.

Kevin

Except for 25 ACP JHPs. Notoriously bad performing bullet. If you're going for 25, try finding lead ball ammunition.

But I'm in complete agreement on training. With handguns, it's shot placement and psychology more than anything else.

Skip the opionions/editorial pages and go for the bullets that have WORKED on REAL human beings. HST appears to be good, BUT not enough REAL WORLD shootings are in yet to formulate a solid hypothesis. You cannot go wrong with Gold Dots. Personally, I use 115 gr. +p+ because they work. Fed. BPLE, Win. Ranger & Speer. 115 gr. +p+ 9mm have stopped a boatload of bad guys.

This is an argument that will never go away.

I don't know why but people still will spend hours typing about it like they are going to convince someone of something...

IMO be accurate with a reliable handgun. Any of the major manufacturers 'premium' rounds will be about the same as any others for most HD encounters.

209

location, location, location

I 22lr to the spot you aim is better than an AT4 you miss with.

I know a guy that was military, police, and had some other "classified" jobs that would probably be a little unsavory to the general public.

He is now a instructor and consultant to some major police Deps. out west. Out of all the calibers and weights he has tested, his carry ammo of choice is 9mm 147 gr winchester ranger T, and Bonded.

He is one of the reasons the San Jose PD went to this round. He says their record on the street is impeccable.

Both will work fine provided you hit what you need to hit. I generally prefer 230 gr. in .45 and 124 gr. +P in 9mm in that order, both jacketed Gold Dot hollowpoints by Speer.

How about Heavy and Fast?

I need to practice on hitting BG hands with my big fat 230 gr .45

It's easier when they do the "Jazz Hands" thing...

quote:

Originally posted by CQC.45:
How about Heavy and Fast?

Supersonic telephone poles

quote:

Originally posted by KevinCW:
I prefer on target and reliable.

Caliber doesn't mean shit if you can't hit your target.

Translation, whatever you carry will work if used properly. Get a quality firearm, and get quality training.

Kevin

Preach it brother!