SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  Ammunition    Black Talons??
Page 1 2 

Moderators: LDD, parabellum

Closed Topic Closed
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Black Talons?? Login/Join 
Member
posted Hide Post
Just for reference, an industry newspaper from that period pointed that the marketing geniuses at Winchester originally wanted to call the line Black Widow ammo. Cooler heads prevailed, but they didn't tame it down enough.
 
Posts: 40 | Location: State of Confusion | Registered: August 15, 2016Report This Post
Lead slingin'
Parrot Head
Picture of Modern Day Savage
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by CTG_Collector:
quote:
Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
I picked up a quantity of Black Talon at a gunshow many years ago, and until recently, it was one of my chosen carry rounds. I still have a small supply remaining. I also have some Ranger T remaining.

I've got a question though. I'm starting to suspect that the Black Talon that I have may have been reloads as I bought it loose and it is brass cased. It does have Winchester brass.

Does anyone know if Winchester ever produced any brass cased Black Talon?


Yes, the Ranger SXT law enforcement ammo was also produced with brass cases.


Thanks for the info. I bought this ammo specifically because it was sold as Black Talon, but perhaps what I have is the SXT then. It certainly appears to be factory loaded.







 
Posts: 3593 | Registered: August 21, 2006Report This Post
For real?
Picture of Chowser
posted Hide Post
That looks like Ranger SXT with the brass case. Our Black Talon had nickel cases. We don't have any left for me to check. Some guys might still have old boxes in their lockers. I'll ask around.
They went back to nickel cases for the Ranger-T line with non black bullets.



Not minority enough!
 
Posts: 5114 | Location: South of Cleveland, OH | Registered: August 09, 2007Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
quote:
Originally posted by CTG_Collector:
quote:
Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
I picked up a quantity of Black Talon at a gunshow many years ago, and until recently, it was one of my chosen carry rounds. I still have a small supply remaining. I also have some Ranger T remaining.

I've got a question though. I'm starting to suspect that the Black Talon that I have may have been reloads as I bought it loose and it is brass cased. It does have Winchester brass.

Does anyone know if Winchester ever produced any brass cased Black Talon?


Yes, the Ranger SXT law enforcement ammo was also produced with brass cases.


Thanks for the info. I bought this ammo specifically because it was sold as Black Talon, but perhaps what I have is the SXT then. It certainly appears to be factory loaded.









Great photos! I have absolutely no doubt that what you have is genuine factory loaded 147gr "Black Talon" ammo using brass cases instead of nickel cases.

When Win was selling the BT ammo to law enforcement they labeled them as "Controlled Expansion SXT". "Black Talon" was just the marketing name given to this particular ammo line. Like mentioned above, can you imagine if Winchester did name it "Black Widow" instead?
 
Posts: 259 | Registered: December 08, 2009Report This Post
Lead slingin'
Parrot Head
Picture of Modern Day Savage
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by CTG_Collector:
Great photos! I have absolutely no doubt that what you have is genuine factory loaded 147gr "Black Talon" ammo using brass cases instead of nickel cases.

When Win was selling the BT ammo to law enforcement they labeled them as "Controlled Expansion SXT". "Black Talon" was just the marketing name given to this particular ammo line. Like mentioned above, can you imagine if Winchester did name it "Black Widow" instead?


I just assumed that these were a smaller weight bullet, but I'm not quite sure why I made that assumption. Were the Black Talon 9mm ever available in any other weight beside 147gr.?

I didn't realize that the SXT brand was used concurrently with the Black Talon...I thought SXT came after. But your your explanation jives with the .45 Automatic Black Talon that I have that has an SXT part number.
 
Posts: 3593 | Registered: August 21, 2006Report This Post
Lead slingin'
Parrot Head
Picture of Modern Day Savage
posted Hide Post
After reading the Wiki links posted previously, and learning that the PDX 1 line was related in design, I thought it might be interesting to do a photo comparison of the design evolution of the line.

It probably would have been more helpful if I had all the same caliber in the various lines, but as I don't I'll just post what I have.




Arranged left to right:

Black Talon 9mm, Black Talon 45 Automatic 230 gr. JHP SXT, Ranger 357 SIG 125gr. JHP SXT, Ranger 40 S&W 180 gr. JHP Bonded, PDX 1 9mm +P 124 gr. JHP Bonded










Black Talon 9mm on the left and PDX 1 9mm on the right








edited: to add pics

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Modern Day Savage,
 
Posts: 3593 | Registered: August 21, 2006Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
quote:
Originally posted by CTG_Collector:
Great photos! I have absolutely no doubt that what you have is genuine factory loaded 147gr "Black Talon" ammo using brass cases instead of nickel cases.

When Win was selling the BT ammo to law enforcement they labeled them as "Controlled Expansion SXT". "Black Talon" was just the marketing name given to this particular ammo line. Like mentioned above, can you imagine if Winchester did name it "Black Widow" instead?


I just assumed that these were a smaller weight bullet, but I'm not quite sure why I made that assumption. Were the Black Talon 9mm ever available in any other weight beside 147gr.?

I didn't realize that the SXT brand was used concurrently with the Black Talon...I thought SXT came after. But your your explanation jives with the .45 Automatic Black Talon that I have that has an SXT part number.


The original 9mm BT was only offered in 147 grains. Win did produce a Ranger 127gr SXT load using the black Lubalox bullet loaded in brass cases. Headstamp was WCC +P+ with a 2-digit date code. Later they made the Ranger 127SXT +P+ loads using standard copper colored bullets in nickel cases and still stamped +P+. This is how you can easily tell the different 9mm bullet weights as the 127SXT will always have cases marked +P+. There is also a 124gr +P Ranger SXT which was NOT produced with Lubalox coated bullet.

The SXT bullet design has gone thru several modifications. The most current LE SXT loads are now called Ranger "T-Series".
 
Posts: 259 | Registered: December 08, 2009Report This Post
Lead slingin'
Parrot Head
Picture of Modern Day Savage
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by CTG_Collector:
The original 9mm BT was only offered in 147 grains. Win did produce a Ranger 127gr SXT load using the black Lubalox bullet loaded in brass cases. Headstamp was WCC +P+ with a 2-digit date code. Later they made the Ranger 127SXT +P+ loads using standard copper colored bullets in nickel cases and still stamped +P+. This is how you can easily tell the different 9mm bullet weights as the 127SXT will always have cases marked +P+. There is also a 124gr +P Ranger SXT which was NOT produced with Lubalox coated bullet.

The SXT bullet design has gone thru several modifications. The most current LE SXT loads are now called Ranger "T-Series".


Really great info, thanks for posting it!
 
Posts: 3593 | Registered: August 21, 2006Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Do yourself a favor and shoot it off at the range. Go get some Ranger T 124gr +p and call it a day. Or if you like Federal then HST. But you can't argue with the track record of the T series.
 
Posts: 20 | Location: Wrightstown NJ  | Registered: July 29, 2016Report This Post
When you fall, I will be there to catch you -With love, the floor
Picture of rscalzo
posted Hide Post
quote:
Our Black Talon had nickel cases



So were ours and in 147 gn.


Richard Scalzo
Epping, NH

http://www.bigeastakitarescue.net
 
Posts: 4451 | Location: Epping, NH | Registered: October 16, 2004Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
45 but you can see the red primer that they used at the time. They have been using the clear for many years now.
http://www.prestostore.com/cgi...f=hotpig27&pd=306945
 
Posts: 761 | Location: SW Illinois St Louis Metro East | Registered: November 15, 2005Report This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  

Closed Topic Closed

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  Ammunition    Black Talons??

© SIGforum 2017