I attended a class at my local gun club recently that showed a video of various rounds going through simulated house walls. Seemed like 9mm and below with standard JHP rounds lost their oomf and dissipated energy pretty quickly, but standard .45 rounds just kept going, through many walls and maybe into your neighbors house.

Any opinion as to favorite .45 home defense ammo? Lucky Gunner did some testing on this, but I was interested in getting some options here. I'm sure there are also FBI gel tests that are also available.

Shoot the round you are most accurate with quickly. Be it 9, 40, 45.

Caliber talks are next to pointless with todays modern bonded jhp ammo. So, again pick the calliber and gun you are on target with the quickest.

I think DSgrouse may have missed the idea here...

I won't use anything but 230gr standard pressure gold dots in my defensive 45s, personally. Actually just picked up a 50 rd box of them for $29 yesterday.

I know others like Ranger and HST, and I've heard mixed thoughts of the hornady offerings.

Definitely DO NOT use the 200gr +P gold dots, if they even make them anymore. They almost never expand in all of the testing I've seen.

I use Federal HST 230 GR in mine.

Just my opinion, but I think any round that will penetrate enough to be effective against human attackers will likely penetrate walls. My own approach is to use rounds with a good performance track record and do my best to plan lines of fire that mitigate the risk to bystanders.

FYI, I have Speer 135gr SB-GDHP +P in my .38s and Federal 147gr HST in my Beretta 92FS. If I were going to use a .45, I'd probably go with the 230gr HST.

230 grain hst and ranger t loads are good to go. I use hsts because the supplier I use stocks them.

quote:

Originally posted by jcat:
Definitely DO NOT use the 200gr +P gold dots, if they even make them anymore. They almost never expand in all of the testing I've seen.

200+P Gold Dots strike down felons like a lighting bolt in real world police shootings.

They work pretty good most of the time in gel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mftGL4VY8QQ

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:

quote:

Originally posted by jcat:
Definitely DO NOT use the 200gr +P gold dots, if they even make them anymore. They almost never expand in all of the testing I've seen.

200+P Gold Dots strike down felons like a lighting bolt in real world police shootings.

They work pretty good most of the time in gel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mftGL4VY8QQ

Was it maybe the 185 +Ps then? I know one of them was no good for a while.

I think it was either 185 or 200 gr standard pressure that was a dog.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:

quote:

Originally posted by jcat:
Definitely DO NOT use the 200gr +P gold dots, if they even make them anymore. They almost never expand in all of the testing I've seen.

200+P Gold Dots strike down felons like a lighting bolt in real world police shootings.

Uhhh.....no. The 200gr+P GD isn't used a whole lot anymore, but the most notable OIS where they were involved was the officer Keith Borders shooting. Borders shot his perp COM with those 200gr+P GDs multiple times, and nearly took the perps foot off by glancing shots under a vehicle. After 6 direct torso hits with his G21, and 39 rounds later, he was almost out of ammo and was dreading the idea of grabbing his backup gun. So with his last remaining 2 shots, he focused hard, and made a head shot on the perp which ended the fight.

Another valuable example was the officer Timothy Gramins shooting where he also was using a G21 with premium JHPs. His perp was also hit multiple times with fully expanding JHPs, but he just fought through it. Gramins also had to take careful aim with remaining handful of ammo and make a head shot to stop the threat. After that experience, Gramins now carries a G17 9mm with 145rds of ammo on his person.

Both officers were highly accomplished shooters who went to the range almost weekly, and Gramins was a master instructor. In later interviews, both officers said they were surprised that they even hit their perps prior to the head shots because they didn't observe any definitive effects by their .45 hits. This isn't because the .45acp isn't "effective", it is just that the human torso can absorb all kinds of wounding and if specifically vital structures are not damaged.....then it can take many minutes for the person to weaken and or become incapacitated. Yes, .45acp makes a larger wound than the 9mm or .40S&W, but in comparison to a broad head arrow or a typical bayonet wound the .45 isn't that impressive.

I don't use .45acp anymore in a duty capacity(poor penetration through many materials, and harder to control under the stress of a rapidly moving scenario), but if I did carry it I would pick a mild recoiling 230gr standard pressure loading to maximize ease of shooting under stress. Federal HSTs are nice, and if I were using it around vehicles a lot I would probably go with Winchester Ranger Bonded or the new Speer G2 series which is coming out soon.

Every major service caliber has had spectacular successes, and spectacular failures. When a smaller caliber succeeds, praise is given to the skill of the shooter. When large calibers succeed, praise is given to the caliber. When a small caliber fails, scorn is given to the caliber. When large calibers fail, scorn is given to the shooter. Now days, you can expect similar incapacitation results with all the major service calibers as they are now engineered to meet rigorous duty standards. Even ten years ago, this was not the case(at that time, I was a dedicated 40S&W shooter).

To the original poster. Just remember, accurate hits are the only game changer with any handgun caliber. If you can't do that under time constraints in likely scenarios, then you should do some reevaluation of your equipment and training. The .45acp works if you are accurate(just as the 9mm, .40S&W, .357sig....etc work), and you are able to follow up with quick, accurate shots should the previous shots not get the job done. Most people can follow up more "efficiently" with a 9mm, or even a .40S&W......but if you have strong hands, train often, and are skilled you can be "efficient" with the .45acp.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Fuego220,

quote:

Originally posted by Fuego220:

Just remember, accurate hits are the only game changer with any handgun caliber.

What he wrote. Try to be accurate and consistent. Two shots close together are more than twice as damaging as one shot.

(I have no actual experience shooting someone, but am widely read. Most of this comes from people who do have experience shooting someone.)

The response of the human body to handgun bullet hits varies so widely you should be prepared for anything from "dead right there" to "just made him mad."

Seriously, keep shooting until the perp is down, then be ready in case he gets back up.

As for the "endangering neighbors" scenario, that's possible but unlikely. I'm just glad my house is an old one. It has plaster and lath interior walls, then old wood exterior under fiberglass insulation under aluminum siding. Most handgun bullets aren't going through all that. (Of course, that leaves the double-pane windows...)

quote:

Originally posted by jcat:

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:

quote:

Originally posted by jcat:
Definitely DO NOT use the 200gr +P gold dots, if they even make them anymore. They almost never expand in all of the testing I've seen.

200+P Gold Dots strike down felons like a lighting bolt in real world police shootings.

They work pretty good most of the time in gel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mftGL4VY8QQ

Was it maybe the 185 +Ps then? I know one of them was no good for a while.

Actually, I believe it was the 200 +P GDs. The first version had a 6-petal design while all of the other Gold Dots had 7-petal bullets. The most recent 200 +Ps have a 7-petal bullet and that one seems to be the one that performs very well.

One thing I forgot to mention is that they are noticeably rambunctious in smaller guns like the Officers ACP or the XDS. For lefties, your trigger finger will slap the slide lock in recoil, locking the slide back.

quote:

Originally posted by Rockyriver:
I use Federal HST 230 GR in mine.

Same here

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

Originally posted by Rockyriver:
I use Federal HST 230 GR in mine.

Same here

Me as well.

Federal guard dog 45acp. Shows exc frag properties in wallboard.

I like using winchester sxt in both my Ruger P90 (.45) and Sig P226 (9mm - 124 gr).

Not sure if they are the "best" but at the range they go exactly where I expect them to.

Golden saber +p seen the end results

Federal HST excellent round.