can someone explain the pros and cons of bullet weight. specifically, the 40 s&w 155, 165, 180, etc. what is better for hollow points for self defense? target shooting? does one beat the gun up more than another? why do you always see 180 grain in stores that only carry one weight?

thanks for any insight!

The 180gr is a carry over from the 10mm ACP days.

I always carried 135gr in 40S&W when I was doing that stuff for a living. OTOH, I am a light and fast kinda guy, my preferred 9mmP load is the Remington 115gr +P JHP, which is what I carry now.

BSW

The 180 grain was the original weight in the caliber. Lots of departments issue the 40 in that weight. That's probably why it is the most common grain seen in stores.

I like the 165 grain rounds (Gold Dots specifically). It's still heavy but travels faster than the 180 grain. Best of both worlds.

Range use get 180gr. based on cost. When I care to send the very best I look to 165gr and really like Speer Gold Dots.

The 180gr is the most popular, however I prefered the 155gr-165gr when I still owned .40's

JMO but I think they have the best balance of weight and speed. The 180gr work in the 10mm but take up too much case volume in the .40sw

For instance, take the Gold Dot;

155gr bullet at 1200ft/sec
180gr bullet at 1025ft/sec

I think you lose too much velocity for only gaining 25grs of weight.

I use 155gr. But I think it depends on barrel length as well. Shorter barrel I would go with a lower grain.

thanks for the info. right now i have gold dots for carry in 165gr because that's what the gunstore owner recommended (sounds like that was a good move). as for the range i have both 165 and 180 just to see if i could notice a difference. usually i find that the prices are the same.

thanks again

I carry 165 hydra-shocks and practice with WB 165 gr from walmart, even at that $29 a box of 100 at Wally world.

180 grain is best. 155 grain performs just as well though. 135 grain is the worst possible choice as it won't make the 12 inch min penetration that the FBI knows is important (shoot someone from the side and it goes through their arm, it is 12 inches to reach a vital organ).

The current best loads are:

Federal HST 180
Winchester Ranger-T (not SXT).
Got Dot 155 or 180.

Speer Gold Dot short barrel 180gr is really nice.

I liked the 165gr GDs, but now that I've all but memorized the info at Brassfetcher, I'm thinking that 180gr might be the way to go

Never heard of Brassfetcher but seeing you mention it, I searched for it and they claim to have been around for four years. Strange I never saw anyone mention the site before.

re: brassfetcher

I found them at The High Road forum while researching J frame standard pressure and +P terminal performance.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3368319#post3368319

They also link to The High Road thread in their page: Speer 135gr Short Barrel Gold Dot (Load # 23921).
zzz

I prefer the 165 grain loads. I've seen these recovered during autopsy and they appear to deliver the best balance of expansion and penetration. Sometimes the 180s penetrate too much, due to insufficient expansion (they're only going about 950 fps +/-) and sometimes the 135 grain loads expand well, but fail to penetrate sufficiently due to their lack of mass. IMO, just about any good 165 grain JHP would be good, though I might prefer Federal's HST, Speer's Gold Dot or Remington Golden Saber rounds due to their high quality control and designs.

The 180s are engineered to expand at their slower speed. And in reality, expand MORE reliably than the lighter bullets. I think you are thinking of bullets from 8-12 years ago. Back then, what you say was true.

quote:

Originally posted by rsilvers:
The 180s are engineered to expand at their slower speed. And in reality, expand MORE reliably than the lighter bullets. I think you are thinking of bullets from 8-12 years ago. Back then, what you say was true.

While I'm sure they are *engineered* that way, it isn't always the case of course.
The heavier weight JHPs in all calibers are definitely much better than the old school offerings!
One thing I'd like to see more of, is the heavier weight bullets per caliber pushed faster than the manufacturers currently do.
For example, I did some head to head wetpack tests with Speer's 147gr Gold Dot VS Double Tap's 147gr Gold Dot.
The DT version outpenetrated and out expanded the slower Speer version.

In .40 caliber I like the 165gr loads.
Particularly in that caliber the Golden Saber 165gr is an outstanding performer with lots of street cred....same with the bonded version of the Golden Saber.

Someone mentioned 165gr Gold Dots and I want to mention something about those.
IIRC, there are still two different 165gr Gold dot loads.....one is 'normal', and the other is a downloaded medium velocity load made to federal agency specs.
I definitely like the hotter version better.
To find out for sure, you'll have to look at the product codes but I don't know them right off the top of my head.
I suspect that if you bought commercially available and not "LE only" that you have the faster stuff.

In my opinion the 135's are good from a short barrel perspective-say a Kahr. They are not as hard to control and will maintain velocity to expand.
The 155's are loaded very hot from all my experience-hard to control in a polymer framed Glock or HK P2000 I have fired them in. I would reserve those for heavier steel and alloy framed guns.
The 165 is a "sweet spot" on .40. The Gold Dot and especially the Golden Sabre are excellent choices. The "Ranger T" from Winchester is also good but loaded like a 155 gr-real hot in felt recoil.
The 180's are what I have practiced with because they are cheaper to purchase and they are milder on recoil, but I would be concerned with all of them expanding well out of short barrels. I think the 180's would be good also from full sized guns that have longer barrels. The 180's are not maximizing the .40.

Also for all you nay sayers on 135 gr. and penetration go shoot some wet newspaper and see how big the hole is! It looks identical to a 125 gr. .357.
Then when everyone gets tired of the "Short and Weak" you all can try out the daddy 10mm and see some real performance out of a automatic handgun cartridge!

Depends on what you want it to do and the system you use for rating ammo.

DOJ (FBI, DEA, USMS, etc) have issued downloaded (@985 fps) 165 Fed HS and Speer GD (53947?), now the full power 180 enhanced Ranger Bonded from Winchester. That has rated the best in their tests, which have a 12 inch minimum penetration requirement and do not consider temp stretch cavities.

DHS (CBP, ICE, USCG, etc) have/do issue downloaded (@1220 fps) Fed 135 HST and full power (@1195 fps) 155s from Fed, Rem, and Winchester. That has rated the best in their tests, which have a 9 inch minimum penetration requirement and do consider temp stretch cavities.

From Doc GKR tests (denim):

155 GD 16/.60
165 GD 19.1/.48 (full power)
180 GD 14.9/.62

165 RT 13.5/.66
180 RT 14.2/.65

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BrokenArrow,

I like 165grJHP for SD/HD & use 165gr plated or 175grLFP for practice. Most 165gr loads will exceed 1000fps & I still like that as my min. vel to insure some expansion.

I think a proven round is what seals the deal for me. Ie. 165/180G Ranger, a 180GDHP, a 180G HST, etc.

Don't worry about weight. Worry about proven real world success of a given round, IF that round functions reliably in your gun and If you can make fast/accurate follow up shots with it.

That's what is most important.