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Can you answer the forensic ballistics questions? (Photos.) Login/Join 
Freethinker
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posted
The holes are in target paper and were caused by CCI Blazer Brass 124 grain 9mm Luger bullets fired from a SIG P320.


What are the small black spots around the holes? (No, they are not part of the paper; they were not there before the shots were fired.)

What caused the gray swirls that terminate in the holes?








I ask these questions of LE officers during range sessions. Most can figure out the answer to the spots question, but no one has gotten the gray swirls question correct.




6.4/93.6

“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 47357 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Muzzle flash
aficionado
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My guess is that the gray swirls are caused by particles on the bullet flying out from centrifugal force and the rotation of the bullet (which I would say was rotating clockwise).

How close was the target? The spots could be unburned powder.

flashguy




Texan by choice, not accident of birth
 
Posts: 27902 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: May 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have seen those lead swirls but only when shooting rifle bullets with exposed lead on the base at 3500+ fps.

I have also seen outside lubed cast lead pistol bullets put lube splatters on the target.


armadill0
 
Posts: 35 | Location: San Antonio | Registered: April 01, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As flashguy stated, it would help to know the distance to the target.


_________________________________________________________________________
“A man’s treatment of a dog is no indication of the man’s nature, but his treatment of a cat is. It is the crucial test. None but the humane treat a cat well.”
-- Mark Twain, 1902
 
Posts: 8999 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: November 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Okay, another bit of information.

The shots were from about 3-4 yards.




6.4/93.6

“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 47357 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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AFAIK Blazer Brass used plated pullets and is the same as Federal Champion.
Looks like the gray swirl is lead, perhaps the plating is being scored by a burr in the crown or bore.
 
Posts: 1057 | Location: Texas | Registered: September 18, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lost
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I'd agree it is lead from the bullet core, outgassing from temperature and pressure. Since you're shooting FMJ, it is either coming from a breach in the jacket, or from the unplated tail of the bullet.



ACCU-STRUT FOR MINI-14
"First, Eyes."
 
Posts: 16251 | Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: December 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Yes, the gray swirl is lead. As mentioned the Blazer Brass bullets are normally fully plated, including over the base, but I suspect a small pinhole allowed a fine stream of lead to be expelled through the plating and deposited on the target as the bullet approached. I have also seen the same phenomenon with commercially reloaded ammunition that I believe also used plated bullets.

And the black specks are unburned powder.




6.4/93.6

“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 47357 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lost
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Is all Blazer ammo supplied with full plating (i.e. Total Metal Jacket or TMJ), or just their Clean-fire line? I thought their regular handgun ammo is FMJ (which means the base is not plated).



ACCU-STRUT FOR MINI-14
"First, Eyes."
 
Posts: 16251 | Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: December 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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I don’t know about any of the other Blazer Brass loads, but the 9mm 124 grain that was used for the above example has plating that covers the entire bullet. Not being sure, I pulled one to check. The box, however, does say “FMJ” rather than “TMJ” which I would expect for a plated bullet.




6.4/93.6

“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 47357 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His diet consists of black
coffee, and sarcasm.
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quote:
And the black specks are unburned powder.

I shudder to think what the inside of the gun that fired them looks like.
 
Posts: 27805 | Location: Johnson City/Elizabethton, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
We gonna get some
oojima in this house!
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I think it is where the lands of the pistol barrel are scoring through the thin plating e posing the lead. See if a Glock or HK barrel do the same.


-----------------------------------------------------------
TCB all the time...
 
Posts: 6501 | Location: Cantonment/Perdido Key, Florida | Registered: September 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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