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Silencerco just laid off a significant number of employees Login/Join 
Alea iacta est
Picture of exx1976
posted
Got word from an industry insider buddy of mine. Still trying to find reliable print information, but apparently it's already made it out into social media as many of those let go are spilling their guts...




Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 15471 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get on the fifty!
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Posts: 2712 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Thanks for the report. Interesting to see the discussion re the perceived reasons.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 36458 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Alea iacta est
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quote:


I said reliable print information...




Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 15471 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get on the fifty!
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quote:
Originally posted by exx1976:
quote:


I said reliable print information...


You made an extremely vague post with no info. I was offering a link to the discussion already going. If it's that big of a deal to you wait to post the conjecture in the first place.




When in doubt, pinky out.
 
Posts: 2712 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yeah, the OP on that arfcom thread is just wishcasting when he blames HPA.

In my mind (assuming this report is largely correct), 41P hit them with a double whammy: A. It makes it harder to buy suppressor stuff and thus reduces demand; B. all of those who were contemplating a can purchase, jumped the gun to beat 41P and thus moved purchases forward. Fears about Hillary probably led to the same dynamic.

We will probably see the same dynamic across the industry, but particularly in the can business. We're living in a golden age, and if you want an AR or a suppressor, buy them now.

I would expect that a number of companies will fold over the next few years. I know there's a lot of hype about some of the new entrants in the suppressor business, but this dynamic has made me hesitant to purchase a can from most of them, because who knows who will still be around (and manufacturing mounts and accessories) five years from now.
 
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Alea iacta est
Picture of exx1976
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Andyb:
quote:
Originally posted by exx1976:
quote:


I said reliable print information...


You made an extremely vague post with no info. I was offering a link to the discussion already going. If it's that big of a deal to you wait to post the conjecture in the first place.




So your response is to post more conjecture, from a source that is more questionable than CNN?

In case you didn't catch it, *reliable* was the operative word in my previous reply. Had your response contained a link to *reliable* info, I wouldn't have said anything but thank you. Mean time, you're driving traffic to the armpit of the gun world.

Stay classy.




Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 15471 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get on the fifty!
Picture of Andyb
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by exx1976:
quote:
Originally posted by Andyb:
quote:
Originally posted by exx1976:
quote:


I said reliable print information...


You made an extremely vague post with no info. I was offering a link to the discussion already going. If it's that big of a deal to you wait to post the conjecture in the first place.




So your response is to post more conjecture, from a source that is more questionable than CNN?

In case you didn't catch it, *reliable* was the operative word in my previous reply. Had your response contained a link to *reliable* info, I wouldn't have said anything but thank you. Mean time, you're driving traffic to the armpit of the gun world.

Stay classy.


So your're upset I added conjecture to your conjecture. Stay classy indeed.




When in doubt, pinky out.
 
Posts: 2712 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'd imagine a lot of us are holding off on can purchases, lets see if the HPA gets through, why pay $200 for the privilege of a 10 month delay and trust registration you may not need.

Add in new products that are registered NFA silencers like the Econo-Can which costs $75 per caliber fitament and you can see why people are rethinking silencers.

Since for all of us these are cool factor and practical for hunting or outdoor range shooting, varmint removal they are extras, at a Grand a pop why not wait.

Silencerco also removed product from Silencer Shop, I would imagine that's killed some sales for them as well, the largest online retailer not having that access to a quick and easy filing platform with discounts.

So true or not per ar15dotcom, which we should be able to get past, whats the future of the industry..

I think it's going to be a lot of unique adapters at a low cost for increased market share, at least a $300 can is affordable for most folks who just want to plink with a 22 can.



"My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them." Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 10303 | Location: Mouseville, FL | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Here's a bit of news on the situation, along with the mention of the Silencerco layoff:

What’s Quieting the Silencer Industry?
Kel Whelan
February 2, 2017


0 COMMENT
silencers_featured
A perfect storm of bad news, good news, and overcrowding has caused a glitch in the fastest growing segment of the shooting industry – and silencer manufacturers are dealing with their first real market adjustment.
State of the industry, 2012

Silencerco has the #1 most-civilian-transferred suppressor on the market, with 3,672 ATF Form 4 transfers processed for their Sparrow .22LR model that year. The once-underground community of silencer enthusiasts, formerly buying via special order through small, specialty gun shops that had the rare Class III license needed to order direct from the handful of silencer manufacturers, was starting to see major distributors pick up lines of silencers for them to push to mainstream megastores. Back in 2009, Remington purchased AAC and after some legal problems, was poised to take them to the next level. Enthusiastic silencer evangelists from Gemtech were getting results of years of networking with mainstream gun manufacturers, as Smith & Wesson, Savage, and Browning took a chance on offering “Silencer Ready” models with threaded barrels sporting suppressors in their SHOT Show booths and catalogs. The levee was about to break and this underground was about to go mainstream.
The American Silencer Association

In 2011, a group of silencer manufacturers figured it was time to push hard on the politics holding their industry back. The American Silencer Association formed in D.C. with a lobbying purpose to widen up the “skinny straw” of the ATF’s National Firearms Act Branch and stop it from being the logjam to silencer ownership that it’s been since its inception.
You might ask, what was the National Rifle Association doing to help? It was quiet; according to a conversation with a senior leader of the NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action at the time, the organization was concerned it could “love silencers to death.” Too much attention paid to easing the path to silencer ownership by such a high-profile group might attract the attention of the gun control crowd before a properly educated support base was formed to combat them.
Suggestions were made at the roundtable of manufacturers, lawyers, and lobbyists on how to improve the NFA Branch. The NRA mentioned avenues such as getting funds re-allocating towards ATF and earmarking money to stay in the Branch to streamline the NFA process. All wanted to help the ATF fix their broken e-filing system. But first, congress would have to learn that this wasn’t about assassin’s tools and Hollywood myths: So the ASA at first went ahead somewhat alone on an educational mission to spread the word that these silencer things weren’t all James Bond and movie silliness.
Adam Kraut, an attorney who specializes in state and federal firearm legal issues, and who is running for election for the NRA Board, commended these efforts noting, “One great thing the industry and ASA did is they went to lawmakers and educated them on what a silencer actually is. That gave lawmakers a chance to understand that their preconceived notions weren’t correct on silencers.”
Flash forward to 2017

Subsidiary of the $2 billion-dollar Vista Outdoor/ATK company, Blackhawk is promoting silencers front and center in their huge SHOT Show booth. Over 20 new silencer manufacturers have popped out of nowhere. Major firearm manufacturers with forward-looking CEOs, such as Mike Fifer of Ruger, joined the market with smart, low-risk approaches to silencers. Every salesman seems to know the once-underground lingo of first round pop and free bore boost (probably having been taught about silencers just hours before the show via PowerPoint briefs given to older gents that were pushing sporting clays equipment only weeks ago). Silencers have finally come to the mainstream, and one buzzword seemed to be on everyone’s lips: HPA.
1/4Whats Quieting the Silencer Industry? photo

The Hearing Protection Act

The Hearing Protection Act, a legislative bill to take away the $200 tax and the painfully-long waiting period of the NFA, turning silencers into Title 1 firearms, is the free-market dream of de-regulation. Silencers would be as simple for consumers to buy, and for dealers to stock, as a rifle. The same useful and timely criminal background checks as buying a pistol would be used. No NFA bottleneck. This author checked his notes from the ASA’s formative planning meeting and it turns out I had suggested that goal at that meeting. At the time, it was quickly filed as too soon – and it was. It may still be.
What is most certainly too soon is the unfortunate assumption by tens of thousands of potential customers that HPA is as good as done. Kraut points out “the ASA and Silencerco may have broadcasted too loudly that ‘the chances of the bill passing have increased because the President is on our side’. But even if Congress was overwhelmingly Republican, there are far wider impacting issues to the majority of public gun owners than gun suppressors. I would think more people would be affected by National Carry Reciprocity than silencers.”
“Instead of presenting it as ‘we have an opportunity to make this law, and we need your help in the process,’ Silencerco came across as ‘it’s a done deal,’ Kraut said.
“It’s still going to take work to get it to the floor for a vote,” continues Kraut. “The way the Senate is made up there’s 52 Republicans and 2 independents, so there’s not a 60 vote or supermajority, and political goodwill might not be expended to push something niche like silencers across. The bill still needs to get out of committee, and that’s where people’s help is needed – calling specific members asking to get it out of committee and on the floor for a vote. Because if it’s stuck in committee it’ll die again – the most common death of a bill.”
The conventional wisdom coming from those that know how laws are made, especially gun laws, is that counting on HPA to pass before buying what they want is a recipe for a very long wait. “Anybody who is waiting for the HPA to pass to buy a suppressor is going to be waiting a very long time,” says Todd Rathner, Chairman of the NFA Freedom Alliance and NRA Board Member. “The reality is that we still need 60 votes in the US Senate to pass a bill, and it’s a big question as to whether those votes are there or not. People should take a deep breath, and if you want a silencer BUY ONE! Waiting on the HPA makes no sense.”
2/4Whats Quieting the Silencer Industry? photo
“This 41F Bullsh*it…”
Before we can adjust to what would be good news of HPA if it does pass, and how awareness of this bill’s good news is affecting the market, it’s important to understand the industry is still just now adjusting from the bad news of last year: 41F. Sales of silencers had taken a beating last year when ATF proceeded with the nearly-unanimously protested ruling number 41F, which was perceived as closing the door on the purchase of silencers through legal instruments called trusts. This hurt sales nationwide.
One dealer offered, “This 41F bullsh*t slowed cans WAY down at our shop. Went from dozens a week to maybe a can or two a month.” As backstory, buying a silencer via a Trust, instead of as an individual, was somewhat necessary, because –again– the onerous NFA Branch requirement of having to get a local anti-gun police chief to sign off on your application could be impossible in many areas. Using a Trust skipped past the local law enforcement requirement and went directly to national background checks. Trusts also offered the benefit of being a problem-free method to acquire and pass down NFA items to heirs.
But, there was an infinitesimal chance of a felon getting a restricted item by breaking the law and lying on a Trust. A collectors association, the National Firearms Act Trade and Collector Association brought that to the ATF’s attention, hoping for good changes, but got bad ones. (Be careful what you wish for!) Instead of modifying the process as NFATCA desired, the ATF took it upon themselves to put a clumsier end to the fun, killing some of the benefits of everyone’s favorite way to buy silencers. Which, in turn, caused a huge run on NFA items as the community made that one last purchase of everything they wanted to ever add onto their trust.
Years of normal buying activity got crammed into one election-year-sized panic buy. So the skinny straw of how many NFA registrations could be processed a year got clogged: Just when pretty much everyone decided it was time to buy a short-barreled CZ Scorpion and a Silencerco suppressor.
“Next person to ask me about the HPA is getting strangled.” – Corey Schaffer, Thompson Machine suppressors, overheard during SHOT Show, 2017.

Everywhere at SHOT Show 2017, the rumor of good news that HPA was all but signed by Trump – that friend of the Second Amendment! – and would be passed. Subcontract machine shops, previously totally unaware of the silencer segment, were trolling around the show, offering their services for when HPA passes. Everyone knew that soon, very soon, will be the time to buy a suppressor. Just not now, of course. Waiting for HPA seemed to be the customers’ mantra, frustrating silencer manufacturers offering some of the industry’s most evolved designs and lowest prices.
Gary Hughes of Dead Air Suppressors said, “Everything is in a holding pattern. customers and wholesalers both are taking a wait and see attitude – business is down a significant degree. Upon Trump’s election, everyone figured it was a foregone conclusion, when it is anything but.”
Thompson’s Schaffer echoed this saying, “Customers are definitely in a holding pattern. Which, as you can imagine, hurts direct sales and distributor/dealer reorders. The act of letting people know what the Bill is seems accomplished; the education of the process that the Bill has to overcome before it means something seems a little slower. Unfortunately, some think it’s a 100% done deal or that it’s already passed. Luckily for us we are big enough that we can endure the slow times. I fear it is going to put lots of smaller can companies out of business during the wait.”
Dave Saylors of Liberty Suppressors commented that, “We are debt free, so slow sales isn’t hurting us too bad, but it is really annoying when you hear people say they will buy once the HPA passes. It is almost like the industry has been led to believe that the legislature is going to do some special miracle this session or something. According to Josh Waldron, SilencerCo’s CEO, nothing happens fast in Congress and this is no different. As he said on NRA TV, ‘the public awareness campaign had ‘unintended consequences…’ People are sitting on their hands and waiting for the miracle.”
Silencerco, the largest promoter of the HPA, felt these unintended consequences hardest with reportedly sizable layoffs reported this week. Planning ahead big for deregulation, but getting caught in the same bottleneck of the NFA Branch, has apparently caused a need for the company’s “right sizing for current industry conditions” as Willie Vernon, Silencerco’s Senior Director of Products and Marketing at SilencerCo, told RECOIL.
3/4Whats Quieting the Silencer Industry? photo
“It’s been really slow.”- a recently-downsized SilencerCo employee via social media.

With an estimated 180 employees 15 months ago, and with a high concentration of capital equipment in a field where most silencer manufacturers subcontract and probably have less than twenty employees, any “really slow” hiccup in sales can bring headcount quickly into revenue-management crosshairs. Add to this that during the pre-election scare, many gun stores overspent on AR15s and accessories (which are having their own market adjustment, post-panic), and might not have the cashflow available to buy Silencerco’s silencers even if they wanted to.
The recent breakup between Silencerco and megadealer Silencer Shop (which has a unique way of stocking and distributing suppressors so local dealers don’t have put out funds to stock items) also removed an income stream from cash-strapped SilencerCo dealers.
2016-17 is turning out to be a strange speedball of all-time awareness, excitement, and new product availability in the silencer world, but is hampered by the reality of customers still being stuck with almost year-long waits to receive product through the ATF’s NFA Branch and 41P’s consumer-unfriendly processes.
It’s Not So Simple

The ASA’s Knox Williams tempers the easy excuse of blaming slowdown in sales on the HPA as “a gross simplification of what’s happening. HPA is a factor – a big factor – but it’s an oversimplification of the gun market as a whole right now, and the suppressor industry in particular.”
Williams says, “If you look at the market, gun sales in general are down because everyone hedged their bets on Hillary getting elected. Dealers and distributors stocked up on things they thought were going to be banned – They hedged their bets for good reason, but lost. They didn’t want the same shortages they saw in 2008, 2012… but now there’s no sense of urgency that there had been over the past eight years. Another major factor is 41F, which we fought tooth and nail. We got some form of victory there with no CLEOs, but it’s still an imperfect system that causes people to hold back on purchases.”
Williams continues, “It’s important to understand [the ASA is] working to make suppressors more accessible to everybody, and focusing on the current conditions of the industry alone is forgetting the most important part: better consumer access to suppressors. Which in turn will be better for preserving hearing, and then creating new American jobs as further expansion of the industry happens.”
4/4Whats Quieting the Silencer Industry? photo

The Bottom Line

If you want a suppressor, buy the ticket, take the ride. The HPA Bill may or may not pass in the two year Congressional class it is now in. While things actually do look positive, the firearms legal community has more widely-impacting laws it may burn its clout on to pass (notably nationwide reciprocity for concealed carry). Support the HPA and the ASA – they need your help since this *isn’t* a done deal. The best thing for supporters to do is to call and email legislators in support of the HPA, and ask to bring the bill out of committee and onto the floor for a vote.
There are some impressive cans coming out on the market this year, and buying them today supports the very manufacturers that brought us to this point in technology, advocacy, and availability. Yeah, you’re going to have to wait a bit to get them. Just like all the old-school suppressor owners that you see at the range did. You know, those guys who are enjoying their cans now, with a bit of a smirk at the new kids waiting for HPA Christmas to come before they can enjoy theirs. But shooting suppressed is worth the wait. Hopefully, one day everyone will have easier access to the health and shooting benefits of suppressors – until then, man up for the wait and enjoy being one of those insiders that had them before it was cool.
Kel Whelan is a consultant to industry and government on silencer business and technology with more than 20 years of experience in manufacturing, design, sales, distribution, branding, and politics throughout the NFA industry. Before it was cool.
David Merrill contributed to this report.


Read more: http://www.recoilweb.com/whats...0.html#ixzz4XePvBsQn

Silencer Shop and Dead Air are both linking to it on Facebook, seems pretty legit.


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Posts: 1517 | Location: Houston,Tx | Registered: May 18, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Alea iacta est
Picture of exx1976
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by HRK:
I'd imagine a lot of us are holding off on can purchases, lets see if the HPA gets through, why pay $200 for the privilege of a 10 month delay and trust registration you may not need.

Add in new products that are registered NFA silencers like the Econo-Can which costs $75 per caliber fitament and you can see why people are rethinking silencers.

Since for all of us these are cool factor and practical for hunting or outdoor range shooting, varmint removal they are extras, at a Grand a pop why not wait.

Silencerco also removed product from Silencer Shop, I would imagine that's killed some sales for them as well, the largest online retailer not having that access to a quick and easy filing platform with discounts.

So true or not per ar15dotcom, which we should be able to get past, whats the future of the industry..

I think it's going to be a lot of unique adapters at a low cost for increased market share, at least a $300 can is affordable for most folks who just want to plink with a 22 can.


I hear ya. And that's the gist of that RECOIL article that Twist was so kind to post (I actually came in here to post it, having just seen it myself).

For me, at least, I'm not waiting to see if HPA passes. I'm finished buying cans altogether unless something is done about 41F. The regulations are just too onerous now, and I'm not spending an extra $120 every time I want to submit an F1 or F4.

If HPA doesn't pass, I'll go back to buying *IF* they do something about 41F. Otherwise, I'll just have to make due with the cans I currently own.




Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 15471 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Makes perfect sense, big mass of purchases, just like guns, too much inventory, too big, when sales stop because of outside forces like 41P and HPA.

IT will take a few months for it maybe a year to straighten out, in the meantime, let the back log continue to be sorted out from the pre 41P purchases and then wait times will drop, HPA may never pass if volume of demand doesn't stay constant.



"My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them." Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 10303 | Location: Mouseville, FL | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
When the will is strong, everything is easy
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I don't think it has a chance. If Republicans gain the supermajority in the Senate after the 2018 elections, it may pass in 2019. Otherwise, schumer will filibuster it.

If you are waiting for it to pass before buying, you will have nothing to buy. Gun store employees nationwide will buy everything on the shelf, before Joe Public gets to walk through the door.


"You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of
avoiding reality." Ayn Rand
 
Posts: 2012 | Location: SC | Registered: April 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
For real?
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I was planning on doing another SBR but decided it wasn't worth it (even though I can get fingerprinted easily for free). Going to make due with what I have. I got suppressor #10 in just before 41F.



Not minority enough!
 
Posts: 4857 | Location: South of Cleveland, OH | Registered: August 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by exx1976:
quote:
I said reliable print information...
I can lock this if we're going to get pissy over nothing.

Just be cool, please.
 
Posts: 77156 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I hope HPA passes, but I decided I could either wait for it, or wait for NFA approval, so I ordered a Sig SRD762 in December.



"Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."

President Theodore Roosevelt

"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
-- George Washington
 
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