SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  Suppressed Weapons    Should I Setup a Trust?
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Should I Setup a Trust? Login/Join 
Member
posted
I am getting ready to buy my first suppressor. I'm not sure if I should bother with a trust or not. My only son is also into shooting and, God willing, will eventually end up with all of my guns.

What are the advantages (and disadvantages) of creating a trust?

Can others be added to the trust at a later date, or does everything have to be in place when it is created?


------------------------------
"They who would give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

"So this is how liberty dies; with thunderous applause."
- Senator Amidala (Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith)
 
Posts: 872 | Location: Southwest Ohio | Registered: October 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Victim of a Series
of Accidents
posted Hide Post
I have a trust. For me the big advantage was being able to have trustees possess and use trust property without me being present. For example, I can legally LEAVE a suppressor with a trustee who lives out-of-state.

In general, unless you are the registered owner or a trustee in possession of trust property, you cannot be in sole control of an NFA item. Your son could not take a suppressor owned by you to the range without your presence.

The downside is needing your trustees to provide photos and fingerprints when buying an item for the trust.

My trust (written by Heavyd, a SIGForum member) allows me to add and remove trustees as I see fit.


_________________________________________________________________________________________
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." - Barry Goldwater
 
Posts: 1868 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: February 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
A trust also allows you to have beneficiaries in case you die.

In addition to what TooTech said - if anyone else has access to the safe where you store stuff... that person should be on the trust too. Otherwise you/they are breaking the law as they have access to your NFA item without you being present.


_________________________________________________________

This is where my signature goes.
 
Posts: 615 | Location: Cary, NC | Registered: June 04, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Who, if anyone, has to be notified when you add people to the trust?

Do they need to go through a background check?
If so, does it take as long as the initial application?


------------------------------
"They who would give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

"So this is how liberty dies; with thunderous applause."
- Senator Amidala (Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith)
 
Posts: 872 | Location: Southwest Ohio | Registered: October 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Victim of a Series
of Accidents
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RichN:
Who, if anyone, has to be notified when you add people to the trust?

Do they need to go through a background check?
If so, does it take as long as the initial application?


Now you're getting over my pay grade, if you weren't already.

My understanding is that trustees can be added and deleted at will by the person who sets up the trust - the "settlor". Just include a written form/statement to that effect in the trust paperwork. Some people have said that you could remove all your trustees, buy an NFA item, and then add all the trustees back. Thus avoiding fingerprints and photos from the trustees when filing the form 1 or form 4. Seems like a great way to have a trust document the size of the Sears Christmas catalog and a great way to earn additional attention from the ATF.

I backed up the truck and bought everything I could afford before the new 41P regulation went into effect. Any NFA item I buy going forward I'll likely just buy as an individual. Otherwise I'd have to convince my wife that she needs to be fingerprinted so I can buy something expensive that she doesn't truly see the need for!


_________________________________________________________________________________________
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." - Barry Goldwater
 
Posts: 1868 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: February 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by TooTech:
Otherwise I'd have to convince my wife that she needs to be fingerprinted so I can buy something expensive that she doesn't truly see the need for!


Well the easy fix for this is to pick out a nice cheap .22lr can off of silencershop.
Take her to a kiosk and get her printed 1 time for this cheap little can.
You can get a copy of the prints at any time from silencershop for $20 - so any future larger purchases just go under the radar Smile


_________________________________________________________

This is where my signature goes.
 
Posts: 615 | Location: Cary, NC | Registered: June 04, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I travel a lot for work, and my fiancée knows the combination to the gun safes. Her being a trustee solves the issue of her being in control of the trusts NFA items while I'm out of the country. It also solves the issue of what to do, should I become a smoking crater in the ground.
 
Posts: 101 | Location: Hatboro, PA | Registered: May 25, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Cat Whisperer
Picture of cmr076
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by TooTech:
The downside is needing your trustees to provide photos and fingerprints when buying an item for the trust.


really? I am on a trust for a buddy so that I can take his suppressors and I didn't get fingerprinted, I just had to fill something out and have it notarized.


------------------------------------

135
├┼┼╕
246R
 
Posts: 3508 | Location: SE PA | Registered: November 13, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by cmr076:
quote:
Originally posted by TooTech:
The downside is needing your trustees to provide photos and fingerprints when buying an item for the trust.


really? I am on a trust for a buddy so that I can take his suppressors and I didn't get fingerprinted, I just had to fill something out and have it notarized.


When did he last add an item to the trust?
I'd bet it's before July of 2016 when the rules changed.


_________________________________________________________

This is where my signature goes.
 
Posts: 615 | Location: Cary, NC | Registered: June 04, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Yes, set up a trust. Use forum member heavyd over at http://www.nfalawyers.com. to answer questions in the thread:

Some of the benefits, even post 41F, include a tax free transfer to your beneficiaries upon your death and joint possession by trustees in the meantime. You used to be able to skip the prints and photos with a trust, but those days are gone. Each "responsible person" (likely all trustees) must submit a 5320.23 and two FD-258 "applicant" fingerprint cards with each Form 1 or Form 4. Beneficiaries would not have to submit the 5320.23 assuming that they don't have the ability to control trust property.

You are not required to notify the ATF or anybody else when trustees and beneficiaries are added or removed. Many people are either buying items and then amending their trust later to add trustees or amending the trust to remove trustees, then buying, and then either shredding the amendment or re-amending to add them back in. You should talk to a lawyer, like heavyd, about those options, but I can tell you that it is discussed as it relates to the trusts he drafts on his website.
 
Posts: 1943 | Location: Iowa | Registered: February 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Stupid
Allergy
Picture of dry-fly
posted Hide Post
^^ That! HeavyD and NFAlawyers is the only way to go. Extremely helpful and easy to do. Did I mention it's $99?


"Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway." Steve McQueen...
 
Posts: 4057 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: July 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I haven't used mine yet because I'm an idiot and haven't wanted to jump through the NFA hurdles, but I have a heavyD trust and I'm sure it will work fine because it's worked fine for tons of other members. Great value at $99
 
Posts: 501 | Location: Arizona | Registered: January 31, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Victim of a Series
of Accidents
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by creslin:
quote:
Originally posted by cmr076:
quote:
Originally posted by TooTech:
The downside is needing your trustees to provide photos and fingerprints when buying an item for the trust.


really? I am on a trust for a buddy so that I can take his suppressors and I didn't get fingerprinted, I just had to fill something out and have it notarized.


When did he last add an item to the trust?
I'd bet it's before July of 2016 when the rules changed.


Yes, I should have stated that the trustee fingerprint/photo requirement has only been since July 2016.


_________________________________________________________________________________________
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." - Barry Goldwater
 
Posts: 1868 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: February 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Dean of Law
Picture of heavyd
posted Hide Post
With my trust you won't have to have the trustees get fingerprinted and pictured. Our 41F amendment removes the co-trustee for the application period. Once the application is approved, they are right back on the trust.

Give me a shout if you would like to discuss.


H. Dean Phillips
$99 Gun Trusts
https://nfalawyers.com
 
Posts: 6365 | Location: Georgia | Registered: December 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by heavyd:
With my trust you won't have to have the trustees get fingerprinted and pictured. Our 41F amendment removes the co-trustee for the application period. Once the application is approved, they are right back on the trust.

Give me a shout if you would like to discuss.


I purchased it yesterday. Will it look fishy if the amendment to remove the co-trustee is dated the same date as the original trust?


------------------------------
"They who would give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

"So this is how liberty dies; with thunderous applause."
- Senator Amidala (Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith)
 
Posts: 872 | Location: Southwest Ohio | Registered: October 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  Suppressed Weapons    Should I Setup a Trust?

© SIGforum 2017