The major difference between an 07' and 08' M4-2000 is indeed the baffle stack. The 07' and earlier cans had a flat Inconel blast baffle with two 316 stainless cones down stream. The 08' has a baffle stack of 7 Inconel cones. The 08' baffle stack is 2-3 dB quieter and has a little less back pressure. These "differences" are really only differenes to people who either run their cans on a machinegun or are running a lot of fast semi-auto fire on a 10" barrel. The sound difference between an 07' and an 08' is really only detectable by the sound meter. My own ears really can't tell the difference. The sound and durability of the 08' over the 07' is important to the 1% of users who run their cans REALLY hard (i.e. military). Most people will never know the difference.

As far as I know, there will be no changes to the design or specifications of our rifle silencers for 2009.

Please feel free to call me or e-mail me if you have any questions.

Well I'm sure it's no secret, I am upset. I'm not really upset at anyone in particular, just that the first NFA item I purchased was not what I ordered or wanted. That was a lot of money to me. Now, on PSI's behalf I will say this. He gave me a good deal, he went above and beyond, loaning me two different silencers for Silencer Shoots. Who does that these days??? He was nothing but helpful. As for AAC and Kevin, how can I blame them? Not sucking up here. I wouldn't say I know Kevin or he knows me but he have talked many times. Kevin didn't send that piece my way. I wish I knew the difference that DevL was trying to point out to me before I purchased this can.

Did I get what I want? Absolutely not? I am guessing it is more my fault for being to new to the market to know what to look for and ask for when ordering. I still feel like AAC makes a hellacious product, but, I wonder if someone might have taken better care of me and my transaction ending in greater product satisfaction???

I don't know what to say, I am a little more than upset and not sure what to do or where to start. I suppose I should give AAC the chance of a civil conversation and see what transpires. Maybe they;ll convince me I shouldn't feel this way, maybe they'll rock. I don't know. I'll post more later on this.

10X-Shooter,

As I mentioned above, it's a very small % of users who can tell a difference between the 07' and 08' M4-2000's. If you have an 07', you've got a GREAT can. Mark and Allen at PSI did not steer you wrong. The 08's have components that are quicker to manufacture and better suit some of the 1% military users. There is NOTHING wrong with an 07' can. They are built using the same robot welding as the 08's.

Call me or e-mail me if you have any questions or concerns.

quote:

Originally posted by SilentMike:
10X-Shooter,

As I mentioned above, it's a very small % of users who can tell a difference between the 07' and 08' M4-2000's. If you have an 07', you've got a GREAT can. Mark and Allen at PSI did not steer you wrong. The 08's have components that are quicker to manufacture and better suit some of the 1% military users. There is NOTHING wrong with an 07' can. They are built using the same robot welding as the 08's.

Call me or e-mail me if you have any questions or concerns.

Your cans are welded by robots!? I thought each one of them were welded by hand by that cute little tattoo artist?

quote:

Originally posted by SilentMike:
10X-Shooter,

As I mentioned above, it's a very small % of users who can tell a difference between the 07' and 08' M4-2000's. If you have an 07', you've got a GREAT can. Mark and Allen at PSI did not steer you wrong. The 08's have components that are quicker to manufacture and better suit some of the 1% military users. There is NOTHING wrong with an 07' can. They are built using the same robot welding as the 08's.

Call me or e-mail me if you have any questions or concerns.

I don't think anyone is questioning the quality of the can...AAC has always made great cans and I'm sure the 07 model was a good product as was the 06, etc.

The point is that the buyer wanted to purchase an 08 model with the 08 features as advertised by AAC. The product sold to him was marketed and marked as an 08 can but did not actually have all of the 08 features.

That is a big deal...

The 07 may be a great can...but that isn't what was being requested and purchased.

When something is sold as a 2008 model, it should have all of the 08 specs, not left over parts from 2007 or previous gen cans.

How would you feel if you went to the Chevrolet Dealer and bought a 2008 Corvette that was supposed to have had an upgraded engine and transmission for 08 and after you pick up the car, the dealer throws in a "oh, by the way, we had a bunch of left over engines and transmissions from previous year models, so we just used those...but they worked ok last year so you are good to go"?


That ain't right...a person should get what they pay for and what the product is advertised to be.

http://www.aacblog.com/?p=817QUOTE]Originally posted by SicSemperTyrannis:

quote:

Originally posted by SilentMike:
10X-Shooter,

As I mentioned above, it's a very small % of users who can tell a difference between the 07' and 08' M4-2000's. If you have an 07', you've got a GREAT can. Mark and Allen at PSI did not steer you wrong. The 08's have components that are quicker to manufacture and better suit some of the 1% military users. There is NOTHING wrong with an 07' can. They are built using the same robot welding as the 08's.

Call me or e-mail me if you have any questions or concerns.

Your cans are welded by robots!? I thought each one of them were welded by hand by that cute little tattoo artist?[/QUOTE]

Thanks FedDC that sums up my sentiments pretty well. It is also is more difficult with NFA devices because buying one is something like a crack deal surrounded by magic passwords. It is not like every dealer in the area has several to inspect and peruse before you make an educated purchase. Several dealers give me the evil eye if I ask about suppressors.

Most of my cans I purchased are the first examples of such that I had physically seen hence I have stuck with AAC products because they are professionally executed and have performed well.

I appreciate Mike's responses and will see how this turns out.

quote:

Originally posted by 10X-Shooter:
http://www.aacblog.com/?p=817QUOTE]Originally posted by SicSemperTyrannis:

quote:

Originally posted by SilentMike:
10X-Shooter,

As I mentioned above, it's a very small % of users who can tell a difference between the 07' and 08' M4-2000's. If you have an 07', you've got a GREAT can. Mark and Allen at PSI did not steer you wrong. The 08's have components that are quicker to manufacture and better suit some of the 1% military users. There is NOTHING wrong with an 07' can. They are built using the same robot welding as the 08's.

Call me or e-mail me if you have any questions or concerns.

Your cans are welded by robots!? I thought each one of them were welded by hand by that cute little tattoo artist?

[/QUOTE]

Wow, that is one impressive machine.

My post was in jest, and based upon the AAC calendar that features a local Atlanta tattoo artist smoking a cigarette and looking stunning. The caption states she is AAC's welder.

The calendar:



The lady is Rachel Anne and she tattoos at Sacred Heart on Moreland Ave.

SicSemper-She was also at the last Silencer Shoot. It was just a good opportunity to post a link to those impressive machines.

quote:

Originally posted by FedDC:

quote:

Originally posted by SilentMike:
10X-Shooter,

As I mentioned above, it's a very small % of users who can tell a difference between the 07' and 08' M4-2000's. If you have an 07', you've got a GREAT can. Mark and Allen at PSI did not steer you wrong. The 08's have components that are quicker to manufacture and better suit some of the 1% military users. There is NOTHING wrong with an 07' can. They are built using the same robot welding as the 08's.

Call me or e-mail me if you have any questions or concerns.

I don't think anyone is questioning the quality of the can...AAC has always made great cans and I'm sure the 07 model was a good product as was the 06, etc.

The point is that the buyer wanted to purchase an 08 model with the 08 features as advertised by AAC. The product sold to him was marketed and marked as an 08 can but did not actually have all of the 08 features.

That is a big deal...

The 07 may be a great can...but that isn't what was being requested and purchased.

When something is sold as a 2008 model, it should have all of the 08 specs, not left over parts from 2007 or previous gen cans.

How would you feel if you went to the Chevrolet Dealer and bought a 2008 Corvette that was supposed to have had an upgraded engine and transmission for 08 and after you pick up the car, the dealer throws in a "oh, by the way, we had a bunch of left over engines and transmissions from previous year models, so we just used those...but they worked ok last year so you are good to go"?


That ain't right...a person should get what they pay for and what the product is advertised to be.

I have nothing against anyone and don't mean to give that impression although you described the feelings on the matter very well. I waited quite a while and spent more than a "hillbilly million" getting my first NFA item only to find out it wasn't what I thought. It's hard to describe the thoughts about that but I think you summed it up very well. I'll give you a call next week Mike if you're available.

quote:

Originally posted by FedDC:

quote:

Originally posted by SilentMike:
10X-Shooter,

As I mentioned above, it's a very small % of users who can tell a difference between the 07' and 08' M4-2000's. If you have an 07', you've got a GREAT can. Mark and Allen at PSI did not steer you wrong. The 08's have components that are quicker to manufacture and better suit some of the 1% military users. There is NOTHING wrong with an 07' can. They are built using the same robot welding as the 08's.

Call me or e-mail me if you have any questions or concerns.

I don't think anyone is questioning the quality of the can...AAC has always made great cans and I'm sure the 07 model was a good product as was the 06, etc.

The point is that the buyer wanted to purchase an 08 model with the 08 features as advertised by AAC. The product sold to him was marketed and marked as an 08 can but did not actually have all of the 08 features.

That is a big deal...

The 07 may be a great can...but that isn't what was being requested and purchased.

When something is sold as a 2008 model, it should have all of the 08 specs, not left over parts from 2007 or previous gen cans.

How would you feel if you went to the Chevrolet Dealer and bought a 2008 Corvette that was supposed to have had an upgraded engine and transmission for 08 and after you pick up the car, the dealer throws in a "oh, by the way, we had a bunch of left over engines and transmissions from previous year models, so we just used those...but they worked ok last year so you are good to go"?


That ain't right...a person should get what they pay for and what the product is advertised to be.

This is not accurate. AAC did not ADVERTISE the 08 as having a new baffle stack. There was no advertisement with "new baffle stack!" out there. My friend who ordered mine is an dealer and handles AAC products. He could have sent his personal 08 with 07 baffle stack back in and received an 08 baffle stack when this occured and he got a mix of 08 and 07 baffle stacks. The differnce is not worth the headache or time involved. He kept his 07 stacked 08 can. You wont notice a difference. I have heard multiple 08 and 07 baffle stacks on multiple guns and noone can tell a difference from the shooting or observer positions 99% of the time. Being a dealer he would not be subject to the $200 transfer fee a new can would require nor as lengthy of a wait for transfer.

Why in the world would you want to wait months for a can that you will never notice a difference in performance or reliability? Oh yeah... if you swap cans you will lose the SCARmor finish you have on there now too... so you will lose the finish that wont burn off, spend time with no can, spend $200 on a can upgrade, and gain nothing you will ever notice.

quote:

Originally posted by DevronL:

quote:

Originally posted by FedDC:

quote:

Originally posted by SilentMike:
10X-Shooter,

As I mentioned above, it's a very small % of users who can tell a difference between the 07' and 08' M4-2000's. If you have an 07', you've got a GREAT can. Mark and Allen at PSI did not steer you wrong. The 08's have components that are quicker to manufacture and better suit some of the 1% military users. There is NOTHING wrong with an 07' can. They are built using the same robot welding as the 08's.

Call me or e-mail me if you have any questions or concerns.

I don't think anyone is questioning the quality of the can...AAC has always made great cans and I'm sure the 07 model was a good product as was the 06, etc.

The point is that the buyer wanted to purchase an 08 model with the 08 features as advertised by AAC. The product sold to him was marketed and marked as an 08 can but did not actually have all of the 08 features.

That is a big deal...

The 07 may be a great can...but that isn't what was being requested and purchased.

When something is sold as a 2008 model, it should have all of the 08 specs, not left over parts from 2007 or previous gen cans.

How would you feel if you went to the Chevrolet Dealer and bought a 2008 Corvette that was supposed to have had an upgraded engine and transmission for 08 and after you pick up the car, the dealer throws in a "oh, by the way, we had a bunch of left over engines and transmissions from previous year models, so we just used those...but they worked ok last year so you are good to go"?


That ain't right...a person should get what they pay for and what the product is advertised to be.

This is not accurate. AAC did not ADVERTISE the 08 as having a new baffle stack. There was no advertisement with "new baffle stack!" out there. My friend who ordered mine is an dealer and handles AAC products. He could have sent his personal 08 with 07 baffle stack back in and received an 08 baffle stack when this occured and he got a mix of 08 and 07 baffle stacks. The differnce is not worth the headache or time involved. He kept his 07 stacked 08 can. You wont notice a difference. I have heard multiple 08 and 07 baffle stacks on multiple guns and noone can tell a difference from the shooting or observer positions 99% of the time. Being a dealer he would not be subject to the $200 transfer fee a new can would require nor as lengthy of a wait for transfer.

Why in the world would you want to wait months for a can that you will never notice a difference in performance or reliability? Oh yeah... if you swap cans you will lose the SCARmor finish you have on there now too... so you will lose the finish that wont burn off, spend time with no can, spend $200 on a can upgrade, and gain nothing you will ever notice.

Yes, they did.

On their own forum, the 08 model was described by their employees and the owner of the company as having better performance, being more durable, more inconel, more baffles, redesigned baffles, etc. It is a signifigant change from the 07 model.

The differences were spelled out. If you would like, I can provide links.

Those performance enhancements were the 08 model and were different from the previous gen 07 model.

When you read a manufacturer describe their product and how it has been improved for 2008...then you buy the 2008 model, you should get what that manufacturer described as the 2008 model.

The finish is not the issue...the baffle stack that reduces sound/flash and helps determine durability is the issue.

Your ear is not a meter.

The basic problem here is that the purchaser was sold an 08 model which any normal person could assume would come with the 08 features described by the manufacturer on their own forum...but in reality, the purchaser was sold a can with 07 baffles.

That is not what the customer ordered or paid for...

You pay for an 08 can, you should get an 08 can.

quote:

Originally posted by DevronL:
The pics are of an '07 M4-2000. The 08 has 5 baffles and better sound reduction as well as lower back pressure. The pic is of the three baffle 07 baffle stack. If you paid the money for an 08 you got taken... sorry.

quote:

Why in the world would you want to wait months for a can that you will never notice a difference in performance or reliability? Oh yeah... if you swap cans you will lose the SCARmor finish you have on there now too... so you will lose the finish that wont burn off, spend time with no can, spend $200 on a can upgrade, and gain nothing you will ever notice.

Which is it man?

quote:

Originally posted by bdavis:

quote:

Originally posted by DevronL:
The pics are of an '07 M4-2000. The 08 has 5 baffles and better sound reduction as well as lower back pressure. The pic is of the three baffle 07 baffle stack. If you paid the money for an 08 you got taken... sorry.

quote:

Why in the world would you want to wait months for a can that you will never notice a difference in performance or reliability? Oh yeah... if you swap cans you will lose the SCARmor finish you have on there now too... so you will lose the finish that wont burn off, spend time with no can, spend $200 on a can upgrade, and gain nothing you will ever notice.

Which is it man?

If his DEALER told him this is the 08 can with new baffle stack he was not truthful or was ignorant. This is 100% a situatuation where the DEALER needs to tell the buyer "this is an 07 baffle stack" and if the dealer thought he was getting an 07 baffle stack the DEALER should have done a tax free swap to the propper baffle stack if he ordered a can thinking it would have a new baffle stack. I actaully thought the dealer might have ordered up an 08 and sold an in stock 07 already on hand. THe getting took was suggested as possibly being by the DEALER , not AAC.

quote:

Originally posted by FedDC:

quote:

Originally posted by DevronL:

quote:

Originally posted by FedDC:

quote:

Originally posted by SilentMike:
10X-Shooter,

As I mentioned above, it's a very small % of users who can tell a difference between the 07' and 08' M4-2000's. If you have an 07', you've got a GREAT can. Mark and Allen at PSI did not steer you wrong. The 08's have components that are quicker to manufacture and better suit some of the 1% military users. There is NOTHING wrong with an 07' can. They are built using the same robot welding as the 08's.

Call me or e-mail me if you have any questions or concerns.

I don't think anyone is questioning the quality of the can...AAC has always made great cans and I'm sure the 07 model was a good product as was the 06, etc.

The point is that the buyer wanted to purchase an 08 model with the 08 features as advertised by AAC. The product sold to him was marketed and marked as an 08 can but did not actually have all of the 08 features.

That is a big deal...

The 07 may be a great can...but that isn't what was being requested and purchased.

When something is sold as a 2008 model, it should have all of the 08 specs, not left over parts from 2007 or previous gen cans.

How would you feel if you went to the Chevrolet Dealer and bought a 2008 Corvette that was supposed to have had an upgraded engine and transmission for 08 and after you pick up the car, the dealer throws in a "oh, by the way, we had a bunch of left over engines and transmissions from previous year models, so we just used those...but they worked ok last year so you are good to go"?


That ain't right...a person should get what they pay for and what the product is advertised to be.

This is not accurate. AAC did not ADVERTISE the 08 as having a new baffle stack. There was no advertisement with "new baffle stack!" out there. My friend who ordered mine is an dealer and handles AAC products. He could have sent his personal 08 with 07 baffle stack back in and received an 08 baffle stack when this occured and he got a mix of 08 and 07 baffle stacks. The differnce is not worth the headache or time involved. He kept his 07 stacked 08 can. You wont notice a difference. I have heard multiple 08 and 07 baffle stacks on multiple guns and noone can tell a difference from the shooting or observer positions 99% of the time. Being a dealer he would not be subject to the $200 transfer fee a new can would require nor as lengthy of a wait for transfer.

Why in the world would you want to wait months for a can that you will never notice a difference in performance or reliability? Oh yeah... if you swap cans you will lose the SCARmor finish you have on there now too... so you will lose the finish that wont burn off, spend time with no can, spend $200 on a can upgrade, and gain nothing you will ever notice.

Yes, they did.

On their own forum, the 08 model was described by their employees and the owner of the company as having better performance, being more durable, more inconel, more baffles, redesigned baffles, etc. It is a signifigant change from the 07 model.

The differences were spelled out. If you would like, I can provide links.

Those performance enhancements were the 08 model and were different from the previous gen 07 model.

When you read a manufacturer describe their product and how it has been improved for 2008...then you buy the 2008 model, you should get what that manufacturer described as the 2008 model.

The finish is not the issue...the baffle stack that reduces sound/flash and helps determine durability is the issue.

Your ear is not a meter.

The basic problem here is that the purchaser was sold an 08 model which any normal person could assume would come with the 08 features described by the manufacturer on their own forum...but in reality, the purchaser was sold a can with 07 baffles.

That is not what the customer ordered or paid for...

You pay for an 08 can, you should get an 08 can.

Yes but they did not ADVERTISE IT as such... show me an ADVERTISEMENT that said it had new baffles. Sure it was mentioned on ST but it was never ADVERTISED.

Why would I need you to provide me links to the threads? I am in half those threads and I was the one who brought them up.

Even AAC said the baffles were not made in the early part of 08 when cans were being produced in 08. Sure if someone thought they were getting an 08 baffle stack they should get an 08 baffle stack. This is not the case here from what I have seen. There was no though to baffle stacks. No thinking you are getting one thing and getting another. AAC said some 08 had 07 stacks. The buyer accepted his delivered can and was happy with it... I honestly wish I had not even brough it up now.

I have owned both 07 and 08 baffle stacks. As a user of both I can say with certainty its not worth the effort to try to change. If the dealer or purchaser ahd seen the difference before purchase, sure... but now... I can say with a certainty that unless you meter the silencer you will never, ever notice a difference for the lifetme you own the can. The dealer was appearantly not a crook like I thought, just lazy or ignorant if the can was ORDERED in late 08 and an 07 can showed up.

Was my dealer perturbed when his personal AAC can showed up with 07 baffle stack after I had an 08 stack already for a couple months and another customers showed up with an 08 stack in the same order? Yes. But it was not worth even sending back tax free for him, much less spending $200 to get the newer stack in a different can.

When an employee...or the owner of any company describes the 08 model of a product and lists its improvements over the 07 model on a public forum, that is an advertisement.

You seem emotionally invested in arguing about how you can't tell the difference in performance...that is not the problem. Even if there was no difference in actual sound reduction, it would still be wrong.

The problem is not with the performance of the 07 can or baffles.

The problem is being told about how much improved the 08 cans are with better performance, more durability, etc...and then the company going back and using 07 parts on 08 cans.

When a customer pays for an 08 product that has been changed from the 07 model, they should get the 08 product...not leftover 07s.

That is the issue here...marketing what is functionally an 07 can as an 08 after having publicly anounced the improvents for 08.

You can't put a previous gen item in current gen packaging and call it the current model...

How about if we box up a gen 1 X Box in a X Box 360 Elite shell and sell it to you as an X-Box 360 Elite? No problem since it is still an X Box and most users wouldn't need the extra features of the 360 Elite anyway right

When a customer pays for an 08 model, they should get a 100% 08 model.
To do otherwise heads into shady business...


IMO, AAC needs to step up here and make this right. Every can that they sold as an 08 should have 100% of the 08 features. That is the honorable thing to do.

quote:

Originally posted by DevronL:

quote:

Originally posted by bdavis:

quote:

Originally posted by DevronL:
The pics are of an '07 M4-2000. The 08 has 5 baffles and better sound reduction as well as lower back pressure. The pic is of the three baffle 07 baffle stack. If you paid the money for an 08 you got taken... sorry.

quote:

Why in the world would you want to wait months for a can that you will never notice a difference in performance or reliability? Oh yeah... if you swap cans you will lose the SCARmor finish you have on there now too... so you will lose the finish that wont burn off, spend time with no can, spend $200 on a can upgrade, and gain nothing you will ever notice.

Which is it man?

If his DEALER told him this is the 08 can with new baffle stack he was not truthful or was ignorant. This is 100% a situatuation where the DEALER needs to tell the buyer "this is an 07 baffle stack" and if the dealer thought he was getting an 07 baffle stack the DEALER should have done a tax free swap to the propper baffle stack if he ordered a can thinking it would have a new baffle stack. I actaully thought the dealer might have ordered up an 08 and sold an in stock 07 already on hand. THe getting took was suggested as possibly being by the DEALER , not AAC.

Right... But I was told by AAC that it was an 08 as I was questioning how I would know prior to purchase.

However, I was not asking who was to blame. I understand that the dealer either did not know or did not think it made a big difference. I wanted to know why YOU initiated all of this by saying someone got taken and we were so stupid to not know the difference (rightfully so)...

Added to the issue and say how much better the 08 cans were...

quote:

Your can is an 07 baffle stack if it is the can you have the pic of. My dealer receiver both 07 and 08 cans in 08 that were ordered in 07... delivered at the same time. If you ordered a can in 07 but it was delivered in 08 you got what you paid for. If you bought an in stock 08 then you got an 07 can, not an 08. 08 cans have less backpressure, more baffles, and are quieter. 08 would not be an accurate description of your can even if it was delivered in 08.

and then follow it up by saying that it is no big deal since there is no big difference and we are so stupid for wanting what we paid for. Which is it? Is there this big difference you were talking about earlier or is there no real difference you are now trying to peddle?

I specifically was looking for an 08, asked for an 08, was told by AAC what the description of an 08 was, made my purchase, and got an 07 in 08 clothes. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Any update?

Did AAC step up and make this right?

Not as yet for me. I am talking to them though.