quote:

Originally posted by CurlyShuffle:
The statute of limitations ran out so I'll confess: My father let me, starting at age 9, go rabbit/squirrel hunting by myself with a .22 rifle.

Yeah, but those were different times...

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
I can answer this.

You can let someone shoot your machinegun/suppressor/SBR/AOW etc. in your presence. There is nothing illegal about that. The weapon remains in your control.

You _cannot_ let someone borrow it. Even if it's your grandmother. You cannot simply give someone else the weapon licensed to you. Because then, it is not in your control.

The person who you let shoot your weapon, is not in possession of it. Ownership has not been transferred, and they are not outside of your supervision.

This is not quite 100% accurate. If your NFA item is owned by a trust, you can name a co-trustee besides yourself and that person (such as a brother etc.) can also be in possession of the NFA item when you are not around. Co-trustees of a trust have like rights.

quote:

Originally posted by aaronsdb:

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
I can answer this.

You can let someone shoot your machinegun/suppressor/SBR/AOW etc. in your presence. There is nothing illegal about that. The weapon remains in your control.

You _cannot_ let someone borrow it. Even if it's your grandmother. You cannot simply give someone else the weapon licensed to you. Because then, it is not in your control.

The person who you let shoot your weapon, is not in possession of it. Ownership has not been transferred, and they are not outside of your supervision.

This is not quite 100% accurate. If your NFA item is owned by a trust, you can name a co-trustee besides yourself and that person (such as a brother etc.) can also be in possession of the NFA item when you are not around. Co-trustees of a trust have like rights.

bingo. My wife is the other grantor of our Trust, and as such, I can leave my suppressor in my safe at home when she is there. She knows how to open the safe, therefore, she is capable of accessing the suppressor. If she was not listen on our Trust as such, I would be violating federal law by allowing access to that item by a 3rd party.

You can't just leave a suppressor, machinegun, or short barreled rifle, etc, at your folk's house for the weekend, for instance, and leave town. If they aren't authorized owners, that's federal pound-me-in-the-ass-prison time.

(although, realistically, I don't think the ATF is gonna come knock on your door if your suppressor is locked up with your wife home alone, and it's on an individual Form 4. just know that technically, if they did come after you, they could technically tack on that charge. it has happened, this isn't speculation)

quote:

Originally posted by joshrunkle35:
...you know movie guns are fake, right? They aren't NFA weapons.

Would you please provide us with a reference to Backup your statements?

I can say from actual experience that title II are used in the movies. That does not mean ALL movies use title II items, but saying that NONE do is totally incorrect.

ATF even has had special paperwork to speed up the process of xfering title II items for movies.

mark

quote:

Originally posted by SIGmondtheseamonster:
The only issue, IMHO, is if the person is a convicted felon or on probation and the terms specify no possessing or handling firearms. It's up to them, not you, to insure they comply with these terms, which would be have been explained to them.

Actually, YOU, as the legal possessor of the firearm need to make sure you NEVER allow someone who is not allowed to possess a firearm, does not do so, for your possessed firearms.

If the person could not fill out a 4473 and get it approved to take possession of a firearm, you should not let them touch your firearm.

GO to ATF website and look around. They have this questioned answered in one of the FAQ's.

mark

quote:

Originally posted by TOOL1075:
You can't just leave a suppressor, machinegun, or short barreled rifle, etc, at your folk's house for the weekend, for instance, and leave town. If they aren't authorized owners, that's federal pound-me-in-the-ass-prison time.

To clarify, you could leave your title II item at someone elses house in a safe, that only you know the combination to, with their permission.

The key is that they cannot gain access to it.

This is done by some who cannot possess in one state (moved there after obtaining title II item), but store it in another state where it would not be a problem.

mark

quote:

Originally posted by budam:

To clarify, you could leave your title II item at someone elses house in a safe, that only you know the combination to, with their permission.

The key is that they cannot gain access to it.

This is done by some who cannot possess in one state (moved there after obtaining title II item), but store it in another state where it would not be a problem.

mark

that concept was implied in this:

quote:

bingo. My wife is the other grantor of our Trust, and as such, I can leave my suppressor in my safe at home when she is there. She knows how to open the safe, therefore she is capable of accessing the suppressor. If she was not listen on our Trust as such, I would be violating federal law by allowing access to that item by a 3rd party.

but yes, you are correct - thanks for clarifying.

Pretty sure its legal if you maintain custody or control. So lending them to your buddy to shoot outside your presence, you obviously now lack custody or control and there's an issue. In you're presence, so long as your are present and attentive I'd think you had custody and control. Similar to ranges that rent them and let you shoot them but won't let you take them out of the shop.

Safe, or a locked container of reasonable quality. A good quality Pelican with a good lock on it should do the trick, as long as you (or others on the paperwork) are the only one(s) with access through key or code.

I leave a small safe at a friend of mines house, its practically my second home. In case I want to throw something in before we head to post etc etc.

-E

quote:

Originally posted by holdem:

I guess the real question is; what exactly is considered “possession”? .

Whatever the Govt. wants it to mean.

No problem letting your friend shoot your gun. That is not "possession". However if your friend is a convicted felon and prohibited from possession a firearm, then it is "possession".

quote:

Originally posted by Enigma Nostra:
Safe, or a locked container of reasonable quality. A good quality Pelican with a good lock on it should do the trick, as long as you (or others on the paperwork) are the only one(s) with access through key or code.

A safe would be reasonable.

A Pelican case would be questionable, IMHO.

You should try to make it something that would not be easy to move around or for someone to steal or break into.

quote:

Originally posted by valmetshooter:
As long as you are there....then no problem.

I have had ATF guys ask to shoot my NFA toys....and have had them hand me theirs to shoot in return. Have shot with a number of ATF guys over the years.....all the ones I have known have been great. Not saying all are...but all the ones I have met certainly have been.

This.

The guys in enforcement are usually as cool to hang out with as any other cops, its the dicknosed pocket protector wearing nanny state liberal poindexters in the regulation side you have to worry about, but its not like any of them are gun owners anyway.

I was told by an attorney (not my atty by the way, he said it casually as a side comment during a conversation with a friend) that I could not let anyone else handle the silencer, period. It was for a p22.

I have it on layway right now trying to decide if I should go through with it. I wanted it to allow my 9 year old to shoot more comfortably with me.

quote:

Originally posted by lilgdad:
I was told by an attorney (not my atty by the way, he said it casually as a side comment during a conversation with a friend) that I could not let anyone else handle the silencer, period. It was for a p22.

I have it on layway right now trying to decide if I should go through with it. I wanted it to allow my 9 year old to shoot more comfortably with me.

Wow...An attorney that didnt know what he was talking about. Imagine that.

There are two types of possession in this country, "actual" possession, or "contructive" possession. Either way, you POSSESS the item in question (whether it is contraband or silencers, or machine guns)
"actual" possession means exactly what it says...that you actually have it in your hands, pocket, backpack, where you have exclusive control over it....
Furthermore, possession and ownership are NOT the same thing....
I have included this link for more study for those who are interested...
http://law.jrank.org/pages/9296/Possession.html
"Constructive" possession is where you can exercise control over it....
Being at the range with your wife, son, child, friends, customers, etc while they shoot is CONSTRUCTIVE possession, you, as the entity that owns the NFA item, CAN exercise control over the item just by walking over and taking it away from whoever has it...
NOW, if you let your buddy take it home with him for a week to whack a few squirrels in his yard, then YOU no longer have constructive or actual possession of it, and your buddy is, IMO, committing a felony. Now, if you go to his house and let him whack a few squirrels with it, then you still have "constructive" possession of it..RIGHT???
Same as a safe in someone's house they can't open....IF you have YOUR safe in your Momma's house, while you are away, and she doesn't have the combination, then YOU still have "constructive" possession of it, RIGHT??

quote:

Originally posted by lilgdad:
I was told by an attorney (not my atty by the way, he said it casually as a side comment during a conversation with a friend) that I could not let anyone else handle the silencer, period. It was for a p22.

I have it on layway right now trying to decide if I should go through with it. I wanted it to allow my 9 year old to shoot more comfortably with me.

There are at least two ranges in Las Vegas that rent machine guns. They are VERY public about this. If your lawyer was correct, why hasn't the ATF closed down these places, and all other machine gun rental ranges, and had a PR day about it? There is at least two rental facilities in the very Liberal state of Maryland. No legal action against them either.

'zactly....what about the silencer shoot, Knob Creek, or any number of other places were you can handle, or shoot, NFA items....it doesn't make any sense

quote:

Originally posted by lilgdad:
I was told by an attorney (not my atty by the way, he said it casually as a side comment during a conversation with a friend) that I could not let anyone else handle the silencer, period. It was for a p22.

So now you know that you can safely ignore anything that attorney says. Since he's so completely wrong and everything.

Law degrees are available fairly inexpensively online these days.

It still scared the hell out of me. I'm just a simple IT guy:-)