Someone at the range raised a question to me for which I did not have an answer. Is it legal to allow someone to shoot a class 3 item, while in the owner's presence?

Example, let’s say I own a suppressor and am shooting at the range. My friend has come along with me to shoot, and wants to shoot my suppressor. I hand him the weapon (Sig 226 with Evo-9) and while standing approximately 5 feet from him, he empties the magazine and hands the weapon back to me.

Since the law says that possession of a suppressor without Form 4 approval and tax stamp is a felony and federal crime, has my friend just committed such a crime?

I guess the real question is; what exactly is considered “possession”?

And yes, I know I am probably reading too much into this and nit picking to the nth degree, but when it comes to something like this, I want to be on the safe side.

How could people hold machine gun shoots and charge for putting 30 rounds through one?

quote:

Originally posted by ScreamingCockatoo:
How could people hold machine gun shoots and charge for putting 30 rounds through one?

Ahhh, very good point.

Even if this is not exactly legal to the letter of the law, who is going to raise the issue? Even if you are doing this in front of an AFT agent is he really going to take action? I think you are ok legally...but even if your not within the precise letter of the law....I would still think you are ok.

As long as you are there you are fine. You CAN NOT lend your gun/can to someone to go shoot on their own. Technically as long as you are there you are in possesion of it.

Yeah. As long as you're there you're OK. If you have to go take a leak, might be a good idea to lock it in your vehicle--you know, to keep the ATF surveillance satellites happy.

quote:

Originally posted by Gun_Enthusiast:
Yeah. As long as you're there you're OK. If you have to go take a leak, might be a good idea to lock it in your vehicle--you know, to keep the ATF surveillance satellites happy.

Satellites I hope you are joking. Everyone knows they now use unmaned Preditor drones. There is one drone for every tax stamp. Why else would they be so expensive?. Just like if you own NFA toys the ATF can and does search your home at 2am just to check on your stuff. (that one is my favorite)

You wish they were unarmed drones......

quote:

Originally posted by Trident9:
Just like if you own NFA toys the ATF can and does search your home at 2am just to check on your stuff. (that one is my favorite)

Yeah, I had a different guy at the range ask me about my supressor and he and went on to tell me that he used to have a MG, and the tax stamp was $400 and the ATF visited him so often that it was too much of a hassle and he decided to get rid of it. LOL!

i actually have a fellow employee at work who had a full auto bar from the war with a tax stamp and he got rid of it b/c of the ATF, it's such a shame history and such a nice LEGALLY possessed firearm is looked down on

ever seen a hollywood movie, as long as ATF allows NFA operated by anyone in a movie it's gonna be hard for them to make a case.

quote:

Originally posted by UZIFORME:
ever seen a hollywood movie, as long as ATF allows NFA operated by anyone in a movie it's gonna be hard for them to make a case.

Not following what you are saying.

quote:

Originally posted by UZIFORME:
ever seen a hollywood movie, as long as ATF allows NFA operated by anyone in a movie it's gonna be hard for them to make a case.

...you know movie guns are fake, right? They aren't NFA weapons.

The law just says that no one but you can have/keep/possess/control your NFA item. Wisdom would dictate being as careful and as far inside the law as possible. If you are wanting to test those boundaries, I'm sure you would have your reasons, but why not push the limit in an isolated area rather than a crowded one like a range?

...the ATF often makes up new laws/decisions regarding what defines an unauthorized transfer.

...since they change their mind so much, if you're willing to push the limits, be willing to do hard time if they decided to change their minds on definitions on a whim.

As long as you are there....then no problem.

I have had ATF guys ask to shoot my NFA toys....and have had them hand me theirs to shoot in return. Have shot with a number of ATF guys over the years.....all the ones I have known have been great. Not saying all are...but all the ones I have met certainly have been.

The only issue, IMHO, is if the person is a convicted felon or on probation and the terms specify no possessing or handling firearms. It's up to them, not you, to insure they comply with these terms, which would be have been explained to them.

quote:

Originally posted by joshrunkle35:

quote:

Originally posted by UZIFORME:
ever seen a hollywood movie, as long as ATF allows NFA operated by anyone in a movie it's gonna be hard for them to make a case.

...you know movie guns are fake, right? They aren't NFA weapons.

The law just says that no one but you can have/keep/possess/control your NFA item. Wisdom would dictate being as careful and as far inside the law as possible. If you are wanting to test those boundaries, I'm sure you would have your reasons, but why not push the limit in an isolated area rather than a crowded one like a range?

...the ATF often makes up new laws/decisions regarding what defines an unauthorized transfer.

...since they change their mind so much, if you're willing to push the limits, be willing to do hard time if they decided to change their minds on definitions on a whim.

Movie guns are often actual NFA guns. Stembridge liquidated years ago and sold off their movie NFA transferrable collection but there are other movie prop companies that provide actual NFA weapons for the movies.

DFW gun range rents automatic weapons for use at the range.

It's the same thing as letting your kids who aren't legally old enough to "own" a firearm shoot yours. As long as you are there, it's all good. Now let the rugrats tote the AKs around by themselves and you are probably going to get a visit from Johnny-Law-Dawg...

I can answer this.

You can let someone shoot your machinegun/suppressor/SBR/AOW etc. in your presence. There is nothing illegal about that. The weapon remains in your control.

You _cannot_ let someone borrow it. Even if it's your grandmother. You cannot simply give someone else the weapon licensed to you. Because then, it is not in your control.

The person who you let shoot your weapon, is not in possession of it. Ownership has not been transferred, and they are not outside of your supervision.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
It's the same thing as letting your kids who aren't legally old enough to "own" a firearm shoot yours. As long as you are there, it's all good. Now let the rugrats tote the AKs around by themselves and you are probably going to get a visit from Johnny-Law-Dawg...

The statute of limitations ran out so I'll confess: My father let me, starting at age 9, go rabbit/squirrel hunting by myself with a .22 rifle.