This has been a good thread thus far. Owning a suppressor definitely raises one’s cool index, and I will even admit to have been influenced by it to a degree myself, but no one else ever talks about that (although heavyd has alluded to it now).
So now I’m curious: If the attraction of having a suppressor is shooting very quietly with no hearing protection in one’s back yard and being able to hear the tink! on steel, why not use an airgun? That’s far less expensive, far less complicated, and—without special efforts—far more effective. Why the one and not the other? (This is a serious question and is not intended to be a disrespectful challenge or put-down.)
“I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.”
— The Wizard of Oz
You may have heard offgrid, Alpine, and I mention a very good steel/tactical match shooter by the name of Scott -- who also lives in Colorado. He shoots some very high end airguns for practice, and competed with air rifles for some time. Offgrid can tell you that his best air rifles will give a match-grade 22lr a run for accuracy out to 50 yards.
Last year a friend gave to me her father's air rifle when he passed. It's a spring-piston Feinwerkbau 124 air rifle. The high-end PCP rifles operate from pressurized air tanks. The springers must be cocked for each shot -- in the case of the FWB 124 it essentially is a break-barrel cocking motion. I shoot my FWB in my basement, in a 30-foot lane.
I'm finding that it's really hard to shoot a springer rifle accurately. There are both forward and backward recoil pulses, and my trigger is heavy & gritty. Compared to powder-driven bullets, air-driven pellets are in the barrel a long time, which means more time for follow-through sloppiness to throw a shot off target. Only this week did I start putting together some accurate shooting from one position. Scott says the way one holds a air rifle is the key, and I believe him. I don't really have a grasp yet on which method(s) work best.
So....air rifles are an option. It's possible I may go down Scott's path of PCP rifles, but for now I will carry on with a decidedly more challenging (and cheaper) road. I absolutely believe that PCP rifles are easier to shoot and more accurate than my springer.
FWIW, springer air rifles are supposedly notorious for destroying scopes, due to their dual-direction recoil. For a quality low-priced scope that still has parallax adjustment below 30 feet, I bought a Burris Timberline, per Scott's recommendation. The Timberline is definitely not in the league of my NF optics, but so far it's working nicely.
I haven’t shot my FWB air rifle in years. My available indoor shooting position is just a little cramped to use it easily, but I should make the effort.
When I was asking about air rifles rather than suppressors, I was focusing on the noiseless (except for the tink!) aspect rather than practicing for serious shooting.
“I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.”
— The Wizard of Oz
I recall that Scott uses his air rifles both indoors on paper targets, and outdoors on steel. I don't think he lives all that far from his neighbors, therefore the PCP rifles allow him to practice on steel without the report of traditional rifles.
In a similar concept, offgrid practices on his property with suppressed subsonic 22lr on steel, which helps with the neighbors.
My current townhouse has virtually no back yard, therefore no outdoor options are available to me at home, other than the basement. Should I move to a place with a little bit of land, I would seriously consider a PCP rifle for steel targets around the house. After the initial equipment investment (including air tanks), the cost per round of air pellets makes reloading cartridges with powder look expensive.
I have no need to shoot a silent firearm and I do not seek ammo loads to achieve a very quiet firearm.
But, I do desire to retain what hearing that I have left. What pushed me to acquire suppressors was my acquisition of an AR-15 to which I attached a muzzle brake. To be sure, the report was extremely loud without the brake, but the brake pushed the blast back toward me. At one shooting spell, I forgot to install one ear plug after a conversation. The next round that I fired sent excruciating pain through my exposed ear. It also dawned upon me the noise abuse that I was showering on shooters around me who might be young and ignorant of the accumulated effects of noise over a lifetime or less.
I ordered a suppressor that evening. An AAC M4-2000.
This suppressor is the best that I could find at the time. I had no illusion that it would deliver "movie screen" silence. What it delivered was extremely acceptable noise level.
I am now in love with suppressors. I now have them on my rifles and pistols. My latest purchase is still in the process. Hopefully it will arrive in the next month or so.
If a person discards the fantasy of whisper quiet shooting, he might discover the great advantages of fewer decibels.
Some days, it's just not worth the effort of chewing through the leather straps.
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Nature, alas, made only one being out of you although there was material for a good man and a rogue.” -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche
I never thought much of suppressors, didn't see the point ... When you are at the range and some one pulls up next to you shooting un-suppressed, there isn't much point.
Then, I bought 3 ... all full-auto rated for 22, 45 & 308 ... That hooked me, now I have another 45, 9mm & 223 and if the HPA passes I'll probably get a dedicated suppressor for my MP5 SD instead of using an adapter on one of my 45's.
Now I'm a believer!
If you really want something you'll find a way ...
... if you don't you'll find an excuse.
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|Character, above all else|
I was just thinking about this thread yesterday and wondering if the OP was ever going to come back with a thoughtful reply or at least a thank you for all the answers he got to his original question.
"The Truth, when first uttered, is always considered heresy."
I think some of the experiences that have been shared are suppressors fired with the wrong ammunition. That was something I had to learn...you shoot subsonic ammo to achieve the optimal sound reduction. And shooting a suppressor in an indoor range is not going to do that.
If in a fight, hit first and hit hard.
|Go ahead punk, make my day|
If you don't see the point of suppressors, you either (1) don't shoot enough or (2) have shot bad firearm / suppressor combos.
22LR is no brainer. It's like a million times better shooting a rifle or pistol suppressed.
For centerfire rifle, it depends. I have an AAC 762-SDN6 for a couple years and on my SCAR 17 it's great overall, as you need that kind of can to suppress 308. But on 556 it suppresses well but kills the balance of the rifle with the longer, heavier suppressor on the end oof the rifle. Now that I have a Saker 556K, I love suppressing my 556 SBRs. Sure, it ain't quiet, but its a lot better than unsuppressed.
Centerfire pistol is definitely "meh" for me, as the form factor of the pistol is changed too much for me. But a nice 45 suppressor on a pistol caliber carbine, that is awesome.
|When the will is strong, everything is easy|
I keep a permantly suppressed Mk18 handy for home defense. I think of it as hearing protection; although I know it is still going to hurt a little, but much less then full blown 5.56 concussion.
Additionally I keep a suppressed FNX Tactical by the bed at night. I am fairly certain it can be shot indoors without ringing your ears.
"You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of
avoiding reality." Ayn Rand
I have no desire to spend $ on a centerfire pistol can.
But my SD556 is one of my best gun purchases to date.
16 inch suppressed mid-length is a pleasure at the range. And my 11.5 pistol with a light and red dot is going to be much less painful if I am ever forced to fire it indoors.
I still wear plugs at the range. I have enough tinnitus as it is.
While many here tout the centerfire rifle suppressor, I am in the other camp.
I don't shoot rifles all that much (although I own a few) but I do often shoot pistols, both indoors at gun ranges and outdoors when I visit my parents. With a good subsonic load, I think you can shoot very quiet loads from a 9mm can (not to mention 22LR which is almost silent). It certainly changes the forward weight of the pistol and takes some getting used to but it's a lot of fun.
|Now Serving 7.62|
I got a bit hooked when I attended my first Silencer Shoot in NE Ga. They were sponsored by AAC and several other companies. Unlike being near any firing lines at Knob Creek, I was able to walk behind the firing line comfortably without hearing protection and could visit vendors well behind the firing line and converse. We didn't have suppressors when I was in the 101st so having so much exposure to so many different weapons suppressed was an eye opener. I found similar results, suppressed rifles have decent advantages as do .22 suppressed firearms. Pistols are less impressive suppressed however I'm looking forward to suppressing my B&T APC9 and I think the pistol caliber semi sub gun pistols will show better results.
Not to divert the thread topic but the FWB 124 trigger should be long and smooooooooth.
It might need some maintenance.
|Green Mountain Boy|
I have zero interest in them until they can be bought over the counter like any other accessory. Then I will have many uses for them.
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If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off
Light travels faster than sound, this is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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