NFA questions.

Assumming that it IS Legal in your state (Texas here) and the NFA is a properly registered & Legal NFA item > Is it Legal:
1) for some one else to shoot your weapon in your presence?
2) for you to loan the weapon for some one else to shoot at the range without you being there?
3) to not have any paperwork with you while you are shooting?

1: Yes as long as you have possesion (ie you are nearby to control it if needed) of the weapon that is legal.

2: Most cases no. The exception would be a Trust or LLC owned gun, and the person is in your Trust as a Trustee or an employee of the corporation. For personal transfers not even your immediate family, like your wife, can take possession of your weapons.

3: There is no requirment that requires you to have the paperwork on your physical person while shooting. All the federal laws say is that you present the paperwork when asked by an agent of the BATFE.

BATFE agents have a much better way of checking the legality of the weapons, by having someone check the NFA database directly, because most of us only keep photocopies it's easy to forge paper, so it would be hard to tell a fake form without asking for the original. And the BATFE knows that Title II owners keep those papers in a much safer place then with the weapon.

Is it a good idea to keep copies of the paperwork on you? Yes just having the forms can stop police officers that may not know that NFA items are legal.

One more (basically one) question:

What is the chance that a regular LE > like PD ...etc would stop and ask you for paperwork? Is this something that only BATF would likely do? Not trying to get out of anything just curious if a reg LE would be prompted to investigate, have jurisdiction, would be required to check or even be knowledgeable enough to get involved (no disrespect to LE intended ~ just whether it concerns them). Just wondering if every LE that sees a NFA item will check or not?

You should always have a copy of your Forms with you when transporting or shooting. Not just for questions by police or Federal agents, but by ranges you visit. I have been asked several times by range officers at two different public ranges to show my paperwork. One guy even double checked all three serial numbers on my NFA items.

quote:

2) for you to loan the weapon for some one else to shoot at the range without you being there?

So if my buddy tosses me his (Legal Can with paperwork) > I can NOT legally go to the range and shoot it (without him around)?

Regular LE and NFA items: It really depends on the officer, his knowledge of the law, and if you feels that he needs to give you extra heat. I've never had any LEOs ask to see my NFA paperwork. I just pasted a folder on the top of my Storm Case (under the foam) where I keep copies of my NFA paperwork.

Codecypher,

I've been lucky, I've only been asked once for my paperwork at a range. And that time was at a really strict range (I hate to visit it, but I go there because it's AC'd and it is 50 yards indoor great for zeroing carbines). But at my normal rifle range (open to the public, but not well publicized outside the gun community) they don't give me a second look.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
So if my buddy tosses me his (Legal Can with paperwork) > I can NOT legally go to the range and shoot it (without him around)?

Not unless he has the can in a trust or LLC, and you are a trustee or employee.

What right does a range officer have to see my NFA paperwork?

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
What right does a range officer have to see my NFA paperwork?

None at all. But he does have the right to kick you off the property.

quote:

Originally posted by PPGMD:

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
What right does a range officer have to see my NFA paperwork?

None at all. But he does have the right to kick you off the property.

Yep

quote:

Originally posted by PPGMD:

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
So if my buddy tosses me his (Legal Can with paperwork) > I can NOT legally go to the range and shoot it (without him around)?

Not unless he has the can in a trust or LLC, and you are a trustee or employee.

OK.... I do believe you but could you direct me where I could verify this or where it is stated ...state or fed law etc.

I don't know the laws this was relayed to me by those much more knowledgeable about the law then I am.

But here is a post by a lawyer relating to NFA Trusts here:
http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2008/08/how-many-trustees-should-a-gun.html

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
One more (basically one) question:

What is the chance that a regular LE > like PD ...etc would stop and ask you for paperwork? Is this something that only BATF would likely do? Not trying to get out of anything just curious if a reg LE would be prompted to investigate, have jurisdiction, would be required to check or even be knowledgeable enough to get involved (no disrespect to LE intended ~ just whether it concerns them). Just wondering if every LE that sees a NFA item will check or not?

Depends how knowlegable the local LEO is. They may/can ask you to produce paperwork for it because many states have laws regulating NFA items also.

Oregon (my state) permits them as long as they are in compliance with Federal regulations. How do you prove that you are in compliance with Federal regs? Have a copy of your NFA forms with your NFA item.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

Originally posted by PPGMD:

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
So if my buddy tosses me his (Legal Can with paperwork) > I can NOT legally go to the range and shoot it (without him around)?

Not unless he has the can in a trust or LLC, and you are a trustee or employee.

OK.... I do believe you but could you direct me where I could verify this or where it is stated ...state or fed law etc.

You can look at the actual statute if you like, google Title 26 US Code Section 5861. That refers to the possession and transfer of NFA weapons. You can then look at Black's Law Dictionary to see what the legal definitions of transfer and possess are. Or for an easier alternative contact ATF's NFA branch, their number is on their website www.atf.gov.

quote:

Originally posted by LDD:
How do you prove that you are in compliance with Federal regs? Have a copy of your NFA forms with your NFA item.

Better question: How do they prove you're not?

The State law in Texas is a bit scary. It says basically - "...it is a defense that the weapon or device is legally registered with the BATF..." Which implies you have already been arrested and charged!

Thus, I ALWAYS have my paperwork with me, I don't want any misunderstandings.

quote:

Originally posted by tanksoldier:
Better question: How do they prove you're not?

Can call it in by serial etc is my understanding.

quote:

Originally posted by PPGMD:

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
What right does a range officer have to see my NFA paperwork?

None at all. But he does have the right to kick you off the property.

That's what I figured. Just curious.