I’ve been sharpening knives on a Edge Pro for 15+ years. Knives for myself, friends, family, neighbors. Countless knives. I very much enjoy sharpening knives. Started out using Edge Pro stones went throgh a few of the coarser stones. Some years ago bought a set of Chosera’s 400-10K stones. Game changer, the Chosera stones are fantastic, cut so much faster then the Edge Pro stones, better feedback or feel. Chosera’s took my edges to a new level. Curious about how the Chosera’s would compare to Shapton Glass, picked up a set. They cut just as well as but lack the feel. Up until this year most of the steel has been relatively easy to sharpen, AT34, 154CM, 1095, VG10, White 2, Aogami 2, various German kitchen knife steels and a bunch of others. I EDC a Emerson CQC7 154CM, very fast to put a shaving edge on it.
Last several months I’ve been asked to sharpen some of the “Super” steels. 30V, 35V, 90V, 110V.... I’ve sharpened several 30V and a handful 35V knives which made me realize the stones I’m using are probably not best suited. While I can get a good edge on 30/35V, it takes a very long time. A couple times I had to take out chips, very time consuming, grinding away on my coarse stones. OK, probably should look a Diamond stone to re-profile, get chips out. Bought a Atoma 400 diamond stone. It cuts 30/35V like butter, very aggressive, forms a burr in very short order. Waffled between the Atoma 140 and 400, glad I bought the 400. It leaves fairly deep scratches compared to Edge Pro, Shapton and Chosera stones in the same/similar grit. Had to go down to a Shapton 240 to get those scratches out then proceed up. Seeing how long the edges were holding up on the 30/35V kind of changed the way I look at how far to take a edge. Why not go further? With steels like 154CM felt I was wasting my time going much further then 5K, go beyond lose that fine edge rather quickly. Bought 3 Kangaroo leather strops and 1, .5 .25 micron diamond emulsion used them on the 30/35V. Oh my! Interesting edge, highly polished with bite. I’ve tried to sharpen 110V, I believe it’s beyond what I can do with the Chosera’s and Shapton’s. Back to the Atoma 400, it does a great job leveling stones. Been using wet dry sand paper all along to keep my stones flat, should have bought a diamond plate years ago.
Looked around at various 1x6 Diamond/CBN stones. Read about Resin and Metallic bonded stones. Ordered a set of Metallic bonded CBN stones from Practical Sharpening in Denmark in 50/40, 20/14, 10/7, 5/3, 2/1. 25% off Black Friday sale! Hopefully get them within a couple weeks. Have 90V, 110V, CPM4 and M390 waiting to be sharpened. Look forward to seeing how the stones cut on these steels, how sharp I can get those steels. I’ll report my findings. Picked up a Spyderco PM 2 in CPM4. I’ll mess around with it first to figure out how to use these stones. Sharpen it, cut stuff….. sharpen it, maybe change the angle, cut stuff….
.This message has been edited. Last edited by: offgrid,
|Little ray |
Sharpening is an interesting topic and activity.
I am a fan of diamond stones for initial work. I use flat stones, and like DMT's stones. Remember than between makers, the name/number of a grit is not comparable.
The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
Ya, it is an interesting topic and activity. Lots of fun. Look forward to using the CBN stones, learn how to sharpen with them. Learn how the steels like to be sharpened.
My two favorite knives I sharpen. Our Watanabe Gyuto in Aogami #2, 20 degrees inclusive, 5K Chosera. 20 degrees is the lowest I can go on the Edge Pro, would like to see how well it cuts/holds its edge at 15 degrees or below. It's a veggie cutting machine. The other a good friends vegetable cleaver in White #2 also sharpened at 20 degrees. Both these knives/steels hold that steep edge very well.
Are you sharpening any of the super steels, 110V....? Your progression?
|Little ray |
I have sharpened some S30V, S35VN, and some D2. (And lots of ATS34, 154CM, and similar steels.)
I have only recently gotten some knives with S110V, S90V, and M390 - the current super steels. I haven't tried them yet.
I typically like to leave a slightly toothy edge, and have not done mirror edges. I usually stop at DMT's extra fine grit diamond stones. They say that is "1200 mesh" but it is hard to know how that compares to others' grit designations. It will not mirror polish an edge. DMT claims their XX fine will do that.
The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
|Just mobilize it|
I’m not a sharpening authority at all, but I can easily get a hair popping edge on my S30V, VG-10, and 154CM knives. Haven’t tried my M390 knives yet as I haven’t had to, but I’ve heard it’s actually not that bad. Now S90 or 110V, I’ve read that takes a bit of patience.
|Throwin sparks |
I am a fan of CPMS35VN, GREAT steel,but it is not the easiest to get a super sharp edge fast. I use a Wicked Edge System and about as high as I go is around 1500 and then strop. I find the technological changes and growth with steels are offering choices like we never had before. Toughness, hardness, corrosion resistance, all soo appealing to consumers, until you try to sharpen them. Does the average Joe need a Super steel? I think not but why not! It’s available. When I am working with a customer concerning a project, one of the first things I ask is “what are you gonna use the knife for”. Some applications just don’t need super powers!
It’s kind of like what 9mm is the BEST, You get the point. It’s really cool having all the choices with steels today!⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️
It’s nice having choices with some really good sharpening systems today to handle this!This message has been edited. Last edited by: sybo,
|Frangas non Flectes|
I’m crap at sharpening, try as I might. However, I have had occasion to try and touch up the edge on a few “supersteel” Spydercos. S30V can be worked with to a degree that I can do some touch up, but the S110V knives? I tried with one and made it worse.
I also observe that they like to chip rather than have the edge roll or dent. Not a huge fan of that, but it is what it is. My S110V PM2’s have had THE sharpest edges I’ve ever had on a knife from the factory. Ridiculously, stupidly sharp. So for the potential there, I guess there has to be a downside.
1500 with diamonds then ceramics? Stropping with diamond spray/emulsion...?
I'm going to try a few different ways to sharpen 110V. Do what you're doing, go to 1500, strop with 1.0 micron maybe .5 micron. Go to 3000, strop. Go all out and have some band-aids handy!
I have an Edge Pro and get very good results but I never liked flipping it over and over. Plus I would always forget about the slurry and get scratches on the blade. Not really a big deal but I always wanted to try the Wicked Edge. I bought a pair of the WE Go's during the pre order. I found that it took multiple knives to "season" the diamonds or whatever it means to get them to a more optimum than out of box. Also took some practice to get the hang of it.
I now get about the sharpest edges I have ever consistently gotten. It is also pretty fast and unlike the Edge Pro I can set it up in front of TV and not make a huge mess.
I use the 200/600 diamonds to start. Usually skip the 200 for my EDC's, not really necessary most of the time. I then jump way up to the 1200/1600 ceramics and then the 5/3.5 micron strop.
I sometimes play with mirrored edges but I like to cut stuff so I find the time isn't worth the effort. I get to shaving arm hair and that's good for me.
I might pick up their 800/1000 diamonds for a better progression.
Edge Pro vs Wicked Edge. Both have strengths and weaknesses. I've used a EP for so long, I'm good with it. No doubt it's time consuming flipping the knife over and should be cleaning table off atleast between grits. I've also used friends WE's. Both are not ideal for certain knife profiles. Sharpening sub 3" knives on the EP with flats along the spine with hollow grinds are difficult to keep the blade in the same spot, tend to teeter. Some longer blades are that way too. I know I'm not getting a perfect/consistent angle with those. Still I know I'm handing that knife back to the owner sharper then it has ever been! A clamp would be beneficial for that profile of blade. Earlier this year I sharpened two machete's, big honking blades. Long blades like those certainly would be a challenge on the WE. We need both!
If I was buying a guided sharpener today, would consider the TS Prof. Certainly would be slower then the WE flipping the knife over. But could sharpen longer knives. They offer a table for "free-hand" sharpening like the EP. Would kind of have both the WE/EP. Also the ability to sharpen at lower angles then either the EP or WE would be beneficial. I would very much like to sharpen our Gyuto in Aogami #2 lower then 20 degrees.
|Throwin sparks |
I have yet to find the perfect system. Until then, I'll use my Wicked Edge and a few tricks I've learned over the years.
offgrid, is that 20 degrees total or per side? My old Lansky system will do a 17 degree angle per side. I have used this with some success on Japanese style blades. Granted it is not in the same class with WE/EP.
20 degrees total. I've read reports others have put 14 degree total or less on Aogami #2, holds up well. For reference good friend who forges straight razors prefers a 16 degree total on his razors.
|His Royal Hiney|
Wow, 20 degrees is pretty sharp. How long does the sharpness last for you with regular use?
I use 20 degrees for my letter opener which is like a utility/paring knife. For pocket knives, I do 28 degrees total because it seems a good compromise. I mean, if I sharpen to 24 which is the lowest I've gone, I like how it cuts the first few times but it quickly loses the same sharpness.
"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
Holds up very well comparing it to the other knives in our kitchen. The other chef knives at 30 degrees total. Henckles, poor edge retention. Brand X in VG10 is much better then the Henckles, no where near the Aogami steels retention.
USPS tracking shows the CBN stones I ordered are in Chicago, few more days! Going to sharpen two Spyderco Paramilitary 2's in S110V first.
Page 18 talks about sharpening 30V with aluminum oxide vs diamonds/cbn.
|Throwin sparks |
Offgrid, thanks for a great share!! ⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️
If I was guy with a WE, diamond stones, diamond strops or diamond film and a pile of knives with steel ending in V Would be interesting to sharpen to 1000grit, drop the angle .1-.3 strop with 4-6 micron, bring angle back, stop with .25-.5.....
I'm geeking out! Ordered 10 packs of Rizla + papers. I can pass the curl cut on copy paper, fun to see if the Aogomi 2 will crosscut a push cut on the Rizla.
The CBN stones arrived. Checked the stones against a straight edge, dead flat. Thickness did not vary at all, did not change arm height between stones.
Sharpened a Spyderco Manix 2 in 30V and two Spyderco Paramiltary 2's in 110V.
Stones cut very well, fast. The grit rating is certainly different then the Shapton or Chosera. Took the 30V to the highest grit 2/1 micron. Didn't have quite the polish as a Shapton 8000. After the 2/1 stone stropped with 1 micron then .25. Following the link I posted regarding burrs... 1 micron lowered the angle .2-.3 and then raised it back for the .25. Results are excellent. Polished edge with just some tooth. Sharpened at 34 degrees total.
First 110V, very quick to set a burr with 50/40 grit stone. Just as fast/easy as with my other stones with the easy peasy steels like VG10, 1095.... Switched to the 20/14, then stropped with 4 micron and .25. Also lowering the the angle for the first strop...... Going for a polished toothy edge. That's exactly what I got. Very happy with the edge. Sharpened at 32 degrees total. Most of the PM 2's I've sharpen are around 33-35 factory.
Liked how the first edge turned out did the same expect went one grit higher on the stones to the 5/3. Edge also turned out very good. Toss up between the two edges. Splitting hairs here
Later this week will sharpen a two more 30V's and a CPM M4. The CPM M4 knife is mine, probably go with a 30 degree edge.
Very happy with these stones.
Sharpened two more knives in 30V, a CPM M4 and another 110v.
The two 30v just used a the 20/14 (700grit) followed by a 1 micron and .25 micron strop. Very toothy edge, very sharp. The edges on these two knives were just dull, no chips... The 20/14 stone had no problem setting a new bevel, very fast.
Took the M4 to the best polish I could do. Used all the CBN stones followed by 1, .5, .25 strops. Edge is very fine and very polished. M4 polishes very nicely compared to the V's. I'll carry this knife, see how well the edge last.
Bought a used Spyderco PM 2 in 110V for a good price. It's been carried, sharpened, some scratches... Idea is to try different sharpening steps, do some edge retention testing, see what I see. Learn from that, sharpen it sell it. The edge had pretty good convex to it, not very sharp, rookie free hand sharpener! Going for as simple as possible, use just the 20/14 stone and a 1 micron strop. Guessing at least as sharp as a factory edge, shaves hair no problem. These stones cut so well, thought I could skip the 50/40. No problem setting the bevel with the 20/14 stone. Had the edge been chipped or bevel way off would have started with the 50/40.
Comparing the 50/40 (360 grit) to the Atoma 400. The CBN stone cut a little faster, felt better and left smaller scratches. The Atoma will just be used for Chosera, Shapton flattening moving forward.
With my little bit of experience with these stones with a few "super" steels, I think these are the bees knees. Results I'm seeing for the toothy polished edge a simple two stone 500/1000 grit and 1 micron strop would serve well.
The potential negative for some with these stones. Periodically they need to be etched. The bonding agent that holds the CBN in place is a mix of tin and copper. According to the manufacturer the stones need to be etched every 100-200 sharpenings, coarser grits can go much longer. The etching removes a small layer surrounding the CBN, exposing more/fresh CBN... The product used to etch is the same stuff used to etch circuit boards, Ferric Chloride. It's been many years since I've used Ferric Chloride to etch circuit boards, not worried about dealing with it. I'm more cautious now then I was then for sure! The fact that I can still buy it over the counter tells me it's not too terribly dangerous! Not viewing it as a negative, certainly spent a fair amount of time and effort keeping my other stones flat.
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