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Edge Retention Test- 30V EP/Shapton/Chosera Login/Join 
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Going to do some edge retention tests. I cut a lot of cardboard with my EDC knives. My plan is to cut IPSC/IDPA cardboard targets, crosscutting against the grain, cutting with the grain is easier. I'll keep cutting until the edge will no longer cleanly cut phone book paper. That's about where I usually re-sharpen my knives.

Here's a sharpness chart I respect. http://knifegrinders.com.au/Ma.../Sharpness_Chart.pdf
I use the Rizla paper as a standard test media. A friend has the BESS tester, confirmed the Rizla BESS numbers. At a minimum I sharpen most knives to easily rip push cut the Rizla paper. Some edges to crosscut. FYI: very few factory edges I've sharpened have passed the rip cut. I'll start all edges with the ability to easily rip cut. List how I sharpened each knife/steel. Sharpener used is TSProf and a pile of stones and strops.

Knives/steel I own I'll do first. VG10, 154CM, CPM4, S110V, Maxamet, Rex 121. Friends knives/steel I sharpen on a regular basis will also test. 1095, 30V, 35V, M390, 3V, 20V and some other random steels. Except for the Rex 121 I've sharpened these steels many times. In general I prefer a polished toothy edge. I think I know what the results are going to be, I might be surprise though!

I just sharpened my Spyderco PM2 in S110V. I thinned the blade to .015 behind the edge awhile back, so not factory. I'll start with it.
30 degrees, 300 CBN, Spyderco medium ceramic, 1 micron diamond emulsion/basswood strop. I expect it to come in 3rd or 4th place.


I'm out of IPSC targets, pick some up next week. Stay tuned!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: offgrid,
 
Posts: 2862 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm looking forward to this!


Remember, this is all supposed to be for fun...................
 
Posts: 3897 | Registered: April 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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That is a interesting chart thanks for sharing it.
 
Posts: 340 | Location: Derby City KY. | Registered: April 13, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Nice chart - thanks for linking that. Will be interested to keep up with your results. I typically sharpen until I can shave the hair on my arm. For general cutting I’m torn between a shaving sharp ‘mirror’ type edge and something more ‘toothy’ which will cut rope, etc. more easily.

Michael

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Posts: 630 | Location: Petal, MS | Registered: January 21, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by mdblanton:
Nice chart - thanks for linking that. Will be interested to keep up with your results. I typically sharpen until I can shave the hair on my arm. For general cutting I’m torn between a shaving sharp ‘mirror’ type edge and something more ‘toothy’ which will cut rope, etc. more easily.

Michae


Polished vs toothy or toothy/polished with a strop. Depends on the steel. In order to get 154 and VG10 to rip cut the Rizla paper I have to put a polished edge on them, 8K Shapton at least. With the "V" steels can get those to pass the rip cut with toothy polished edge. I think these steels (S110V and Maxamet) perform/last longer with a toothy edge? Or maybe that's me convincing myself of that after going backwards a few times on the final step or two of a polished edge with strops!
 
Posts: 2862 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks for the comments. I’ve given the reverse method (near polished edge and then a few passes with a rougher grit) a try but haven’t put enough time in it to perfect my technique yet.

The steels I most often carry are S30V and S35VN. I did recently pick up a fixed blade in 3V but haven’t used it enough to require any sharpening.

Michael
 
Posts: 630 | Location: Petal, MS | Registered: January 21, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Tested 5 knives today. Started with S110V, used it's dullness or inability to cleanly cut the phone book paper as a reference for the others. Knives held at about a 45 degree angle, how I hold a knife when cutting up boxes. Used about a inch of the blade towards the heel. Used that same area to cut with the phone book paper. Spyderco's as I could feel the cardboard cut have some resistance, cut in increments of fives, check phone book paper. My surprise so far is the almost tie between S110V and CPM4. CPM4 is a much easier steel to sharpen. S110V has been thinned and at 30 degrees. Chubby Fallkniven is not a cardboard cutter. But hey, I got it gonna try it. The Maxamet rocks! It won't cut phone book paper cleanly, still cuts through cardboard with a lot less resistance then the other Spyderco's.

Spyderco PM2 Maxamet- 34 degrees, 300/700CBN, 1 micron strop

125 cuts/2250"

Spyderco PM2 S110V- 30 degrees, 300CBN, Spyderco medium ceramic, 1 micron strop

80 cuts/1440"

Spyderco PM2 CPM4- 34 degrees, 300.700CBN, 1 micron strop

75 cuts/1350"

Emerson CQC7A 154CM- 40 degrees, 500 Shapton, 1/2K Chosera, 4/8K Shapton.

12 cuts/216"

Fallkniven F1 VG10- same as above

4 cuts/72"

Pile O cardboard. Fun stuff!

 
Posts: 2862 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Rex 121 the King of retention!

Creely Mako Rex 121

30 degrees, 300/700CBN, 1/.1 micron strop.

Spent a lot of time on the 700 grit stone, completely removed the burr with edge leading strokes. Edge had a tremendous amount of bite, could not quite rip cut the Rizla paper. About a dozen passes with the 1.0 strop, few passes with the .1 strop. As hard as the steel is I wasn't too concerned about polishing out the serrations, still used light strop pressure. Edge still had plenty of bite, easily rip cut the Rizla. Happy with the results, I think I nailed the edge!

Interesting cutting with this steel. Resistance through the cardboard felt about the same for about 80'ish cuts, then changed a little and held that for the next 150 or so. When it would no longer cut the phone book paper cleanly the edge still cuts cardboard fairly well. Love to have a PM2 in Rex 121!

265 cuts/4770"



In the next couple weeks will sharpen PM2's in 30/35V and a Benchmade in 20V, see how those do. Guessing 30/35V half of the CPM4, 20V?

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Posts: 2862 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by mdblanton:
Thanks for the comments. I’ve given the reverse method (near polished edge and then a few passes with a rougher grit) a try but haven’t put enough time in it to perfect my technique yet.

Michael


I've read and watched most everything Clay Allison has put out. It tried this edge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4w0LqdMcGM

Border line between coarse stones/strop or two and the above edge. His micro bevel edge is a little easier to do.
 
Posts: 2862 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks for the link offgrid. I’ll check out that video and give it a try with my Wicked Edge Go.

Michael
 
Posts: 630 | Location: Petal, MS | Registered: January 21, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Throwin sparks
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GREAT info here my friend!!!!
 
Posts: 5804 | Location: Nashville Tn | Registered: October 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by sybo:
GREAT info here my friend!!!!


Thanks Sybo! I enjoy this stuff.

Will soon test a Bradford Guardian 3 Wharnie in Vanadis 4E.
 
Posts: 2862 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Boker AUS-8

40 degrees, 300/700/1500CBN, 1/.1 strop

5 cuts/90"



Sharpening this one has me thinking about tracking the ratio of cuts/time spent sharpening. Folders: AUS-8 score very poorly, Maxamet score very well!
 
Posts: 2862 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Interesting stuff.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 49007 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by jhe888:
Interesting stuff.


Indeed. While this test is certainly not scientific, enough of a result to shows us the difference between these steels. I'm sure I could eek out a little more performance with different stone/strop progressions.
 
Posts: 2862 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Spyderco PM2 S30V. 34 degrees, 300/700/1500CBN, .5/.1 strop.

30 cuts/540"

 
Posts: 2862 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Spyderco Shaman 30V

34 degrees, 300/700/1500CBN, .5/.1 strop

33 cuts/594"



Shaman is my second favorite Spyderco model behind the PM2. Feels good in the hand, carries well for a big folder.



We've all read EDC knives should be sharpened at 40 degrees. I believe with the steels available today gotta question that. I'll sharpen the M4 at 28 degrees same stone/strop progression as before, see what we see.

Good read about edge retention, links in the article to edge angle/retention...

https://knifesteelnerds.com/20...-of-48-knife-steels/
 
Posts: 2862 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thank you for test data.

Could you share the “data” on time to resharpen?


NRA Life Member
 
Posts: 3659 | Location: Commonwealth of Virginia | Registered: January 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by 4MUL8R:
Thank you for test data.

Could you share the “data” on time to resharpen?


Resharpened the PM2 S110V and CQC7A 154CM this morning.

154CM 12:30
S110V 17:30

Behind Rex 121 , S110V takes the longest to sharpen. Stayed on the second stone for half or more of the total time.

Countless times I've read steels like S110V, Maxamet.... are hard to sharpen. Really no different then any other steel. All steels need the same steps, form a burr, move the burr to the other side, remove burr, refine apex.... If those steps are not understood, regardless of steel will get poor results. With CBN and diamond stones forming a burr there's not that much difference in time between various steels.

Anyone have a PM2 in CPM10V?
 
Posts: 2862 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by offgrid:

Countless times I've read steels like S110V, Maxamet.... are hard to sharpen. Really no different then any other steel. All steels need the same steps, form a burr, move the burr to the other side, remove burr, refine apex.... If those steps are not understood, regardless of steel will get poor results. With CBN and diamond stones forming a burr there's not that much difference in time between various steels.



You got me started on the CBN Stones and then onto some of the diamond stones. They really are a revalation when it comes to sharpening the super steels! I can barely imagine how hard it would be to sharpen S110v with something like Arkansas stones. It's just a matter of going through the progressions with CBN and Diamonds........


Remember, this is all supposed to be for fun...................
 
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