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High-grade steel for chef's knife? Login/Join 
Member
Picture of batpot
posted
It seems very few chef's knives are available in the high end steels; perhaps it's just cost prohibitive to make a 8" chefs knife in say S35VN, or M390/20CV?

Does such a beast exist?
 
Posts: 2100 | Location: Seattle | Registered: January 07, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
My common sense
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It can be expensive, and it’s not necessarily what you want for the job. High carbon steel knives are fantastic for cooking, they just stain over time. Long ago the instructor for my gourmet cooking class explained that she had a very expensive stainless set of knives for professional work, specifically because they looked professional. But for home use she would scavenge from garage sales for 50’s era high carbon steel blades because they held a superior edge, just didn’t look as good. They also tend to be easier to sharpen and hone than the modern super steels.



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Posts: 869 | Location: Valley of the Sun, AZ | Registered: February 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Chris Reeve makes S35VN chef's knives. The blades are a little thick but they're nice knives. They actually aren't as expensive as you might expect.

https://chrisreeve.com/collect...es-1/products/sikayo

A lot of Japanese chef's knives are made with really fantastic steel.
 
Posts: 4519 | Location: TX | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm don't know a lot about steel types. But my globals are super hard.

Steel type: CROMOVA 18

Global knives are made from a steel specially designed for Global knives called "CROMOVA 18". CROMOVA 18 is a steel, with a special mixture of molybdenum, vanadium and chromium. The exact combination is a trade secret, but the steel is made to be hard enough so that the knives retain their sharpness, yet soft enough to sharpen with a whetstone. The high chromium content gives the knives excellent resistance to rust and staining.




Train how you intend to Fight

Remember - Training is not sparring. Sparring is not fighting. Fighting is not combat.
 
Posts: 7791 | Location: Alpharetta, GA | Registered: August 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of batpot
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quote:
Originally posted by maladat:
Chris Reeve makes S35VN chef's knives. The blades are a little thick but they're nice knives. They actually aren't as expensive as you might expect.

https://chrisreeve.com/collect...es-1/products/sikayo

A lot of Japanese chef's knives are made with really fantastic steel.


I have a Japanese damascus knife, but know nothing of it's provenance.
And damastic anymore is pretty much just a generic term for "steel layers", and speaks nothing to the characteristics of the steel anyway. I shy away from them now, unless there's more detail.

Mine is hard, but is also chipping at multiple points along the edge. It's very thin at the spine, and the point is rounded off.

I was just surprised at how little is discussed about steel types outside of the pocket/"tactical" arena.
It seems like a very important variable that is ignored by this other, even broader consumer segment.
 
Posts: 2100 | Location: Seattle | Registered: January 07, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Festina Lente
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Bark River makes some with CPM-154. For cooking, I think I'd go with easier to sharpen than super steel.

https://www.knivesshipfree.com...chefs-knife-cpm-154/



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Posts: 6702 | Location: in the red zone of the blue state, CT | Registered: October 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've got a Japanese chef knife in VG10 that runs really thin and really hard. The thing cuts like a lightsabre but you have to be very careful around bones and hard surfaces.
 
Posts: 1711 | Registered: November 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Henkels ran a series of knives in ZDP-189. They called it Cermax M66 but it's just their name for ZDP-189

"MC66 / ZDP-189 - Stainless powder steel
ZDP-189 is called Zwilling J.A. Henckels MC66 steel and is the hardest stainless powder available at the time of writing (2012). It has the highest content of alloy elements of all powder steel types. Zwilling J.A. Henckels reaches a hardness of ca. 66 Rockwell C. ZDP-189 is very hard and durable, but more sensitive to corrosion and breakage of pieces than for example SG2 / SGPS and D2 / SKD11. In addition, ZDP-189 is difficult to sharpen.

Just like VG10 steel MC66 / ZDP-189 steel is almost always used laminated.

Available knives in this steel: Miyabi by Zwilling 5000MCD 67"

from:https://www.knivesandtools.com/en/ct/steel-types-for-kitchen-knives.htm

Cutlery and more has the set:

https://www.cutleryandmore.com...rch?q=henkels+cermax

Amazon even carries them:

https://www.amazon.com/Zwillin...8-Inch/dp/B000ALMJPI

Fantastic Steel, the handles feel awesome in the hand. These might be just what you are looking for. ChefsKnivesToGo.com also lists a few knives in ZDP-189 but they are usually twice as much or more..............


Remember, this is all supposed to be for fun...................
 
Posts: 3738 | Registered: April 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Throwin sparks
makin knives
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I use quite a bit os CPMS35VN and I absolutely love it for kitchen use as it is really corrosion resistant, holds a good edge, and is relatively easy to sharpen. It’s more pricy than lots of other choices and cheaper than some. It’s a really nice steel. I really love high carbon blades as long as a patina is acceptable in appearance. It’s really about cost and appearance, then other things like ease of sharpening.

CPMS35VN here in a Bird and Trout Knife outta the shop.

https://imgur.com/a/w5hlIta
 
Posts: 5218 | Location: Nashville Tn | Registered: October 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Knife Farmer
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my recent favorite stainless for kitchen cutlery is AEB-L steel. i have used it for lots of different styles of knives and it is great in the kitchen. not too hard to sharpen and keeps that edge for a long time.

dozer


"She's got a cherry-handled pistol in her lollipop pocket." Five Horse Johnson
 
Posts: 2684 | Location: fayette,al | Registered: April 07, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Throwin sparks
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Tons of good here!! Would love to hear from more folks!
 
Posts: 5218 | Location: Nashville Tn | Registered: October 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I looked up my current knife, and it's a Yaxel Ran with 33 layer damascus over VG10.
A respectable knife, but that chipping is so bad...

That Chris Reeve is so tempting, but I think I'm going to try something way cheaper, like a 420/X30Cr13, which has great toughness and stain resistance, but requires more frequent sharpening.
But it would need to have a good spine to it...

Also in the draw is an old Kitchenaid Santoku that has curved!
 
Posts: 2100 | Location: Seattle | Registered: January 07, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
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A fair number of Japanese knives use VG-10, even from the factory. It isn't a super steel, but close. I think it is a good cross between durable edges without being too hard to sharpen. Many casual knife users just couldn't resharpen something like VDP-189 or S110V, and would have trouble even with S30V or S35VN.

Super-Blue and some others like V-Toku2 have also been used in some Japanese knives. They are totally not stainless, but the Japanese care less about patina than Americans.

Bob Kramer, who hand makes knives we can't afford, uses 52100, also not stainless.

But, yeah, most of the big Western factories don't use particularly good steels. Adequate, but not great.




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Posts: 47231 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Throwin sparks
makin knives
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Discussing knife steel is like caliber wars that are debated amongst gun enthusiasts. There are so MANY factors. There are many choices ⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️.
 
Posts: 5218 | Location: Nashville Tn | Registered: October 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
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quote:
Originally posted by sybo:
Discussing knife steel is like caliber wars that are debated amongst gun enthusiasts. There are so MANY factors. There are many choices ⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️.


Absolutely true. I'd rather have a good knife, well designed, and heat treated correctly and made out a pedestrian steel than one made of the sexiest supersteel that is badly designed. And a bad heat treat can render any steel second rate.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 47231 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What I bought:
https://www.amazon.com/Mercer-Millennia-8-Inch
...not too worried about the heat treat on that, it is dishwasher safe (until the handle falls off), and easy to sharpen with a ceramic rod.
And this to fix my Yaxell:
https://www.amazon.com/ARCCI-Diamond

What I oggled:
http://www.newwestknifeworks.c...hef-knives/cpm-s35vn

http://www.bladesofthegods.com...hop/ryan-clift-m390/

https://noraknives.com/product...-chef-red-brick-road

What I still may get, along with a cutting board:
https://warthercutlery.com

What drew me to M390/20cv and s35vn is that they give up some toughness for far superior edge retention.
VG10 gives up a LOT of toughness, and doesn't even have as good edge retention, but will take a finer edge than the others. I don't need that, but it sure is pretty.

CPM M4 is both extremely sharp and tough, but corrodes easily....
Just wish it was more plentiful. Patina don't bother me.

I wanted a thick 420 steel, just to see if it gets annoying to sharpen. I suspect it won't.
 
Posts: 2100 | Location: Seattle | Registered: January 07, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by batpot:
What I bought:
https://www.amazon.com/Mercer-Millennia-8-Inch
...not too worried about the heat treat on that, it is dishwasher safe (until the handle falls off), and easy to sharpen with a ceramic rod.



There is NO such thing as a knife EDGE that is "dishwasher Safe".

You can wash your knives in the dishwasher or you can have knives that stay sharp you CAN'T have both!


Remember, this is all supposed to be for fun...................
 
Posts: 3738 | Registered: April 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I recently got a Yaxell Gou Santoku. It's made w/ SG2 steel layered 101 times.

https://www.amazon.com/Yaxell-...-Count/dp/B005PY39RM

I found it used and at a price I couldn't pass up. So far, I'm a little underwhelmed. I also have a Wusthof Classic 4183 Santoku, which is probably my favorite kitchen knife. The Yaxell is considerably heavier and currently not as sharp. It carries much more weight in the handle. I need to work on sharpening it.

One thing I like about the Yaxell over the Wusthof is that Damascus steel resists food from sticking to it better. I thought that was interesting, b/c I'm used to seeing Santoku blades w/ scallops.
 
Posts: 1499 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by djpaintles:
There is NO such thing as a knife EDGE that is "dishwasher Safe".

You can wash your knives in the dishwasher or you can have knives that stay sharp you CAN'T have both!


I won't argue, but with virtually all knives under the $100 mark, the edge won't stay sharp anyway. That problem is solved by something this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073SCBGWC/

And they also don't chip.
 
Posts: 2100 | Location: Seattle | Registered: January 07, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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