Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    The P230 raffle is being cancelled
Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 

Moderators: Chris Orndorff, LDD
The P230 raffle is being cancelled Login/Join 
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
I'm sorry to tell you guys that I've decided to cancel the raffle. Recently, I was contacted by a state government official- interestingly, a state in which neither I nor arcwelder reside. Be that as it may, this official stated that he had received an "anonymous complaint" about the raffle. Let me first say that I had two conversations with this gentleman, and he was just as nice as he could be. I'm sure that given the circumstances, you will be surprised to hear me say that these conversations were not only cordial, they were downright pleasant. The man's office received this complaint and he was obligated to do his job, and so he contacted me.

He advised me of the letter of the law in his state and I let him know that I am not a resident of that state, and the monies for the raffle were not being received into his state. We left it at that until I consulted with an attorney and advised arcwelder of the matter. Although this raffle is the smallest of small potatoes, I decided that the only prudent course of action was to cancel the raffle. My feeling is that we would have been fine to continue, but I'm sure that you will all agree that given the circumstances, it's simply not worth the risk.

When I spoke with arcwelder about this matter, he pointed out that there are currently and have been in the past, other forums which have conducted such raffles, and he is correct. What is also true is that SIGforum- throughout its entire existence- has been privately funded and that we have not only not solicited financial donations from forum members, we have also refused the efforts of members to start funding drives for the forum. Over the years, I and other staff members have received some gifts from individual, longtime members of the forum out of their gratitude for this place, but we have never said to this forum's members "please help us." I want to be clear that my pointing this out is not a subtle way of soliciting donations. I've long said that the day will probably come when the forum needs help to be sustained, but that day has not yet come.
Additionally, I have lost count of the times when SIGforum members have raised thousands upon thousands of dollars for members in financial distress. These solicitations usually garner between 15 and 20,000 dollars for members. I had one member- a recipient of one such drive- plainly state to me that we saved his house. It's not possible for me to describe to you how fulfilling it is to hear such a thing. The generosity of these acts, though, does not belong to me. The generosity of these acts belong to the members of SIGforum, and I could not be prouder of you guys. The people in this forum are exceptional human beings. That is the the truth.

I say these things to illustrate that neither the owners of SIGforum nor its members are greedy people; quite the opposite, actually. We have- all of us- acted in good faith at all times and have, I believe in this respect, demonstrated time and again the best that humanity has to offer. So, when I hear that someone has complained anonymously about a raffle in this forum that may have netted us perhaps 1500 dollars, I'm disgusted. This is beyond petty. Not a single person on this planet would have been harmed by this raffle. Not one single person. Nevertheless, if SIGforum is to conduct such drawings in the future, we will have to determine what needs to be done in order to comply with all legalities associated with such activities.

I spoke with DK148 earlier today and he confirmed that the pistol is still the property of SIGforum, and I haven't spoken to Mary at CCR, but, having known her for many years, I have no doubt that the refinishing services will still be contributed, so I will either sell the pistol outright, or perhaps we'll take offers on the pistol et al and accept the best offer.

It goes without saying, of course, that all members who participated in the raffle will receive refunds, but since the money orders have not yet been cashed, and since the amounts of most entries are so small- 12 or 20 dollars, some of these members may not want back their money. Either way, it is up to them. Please contact arcwelder and let him know how you wish to proceed.

I'm sorry this has played out as it has, guys and I thank those of you who participated.
Posts: 92196 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Giftedly Outspoken
Picture of sigarms229
posted Hide Post
Thanks for the update Para. Completely understandable that in this day and age it is better to be safe than sorry when it comes to legalities.

I just emailed arc and told him not to refund me. The funds can be put towards to the forum.

Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six
Posts: 3816 | Location: SouthCentral PA | Registered: December 05, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Chilihead and Barbeque Aficionado
Picture of 2Adefender
posted Hide Post
Sorry to hear about the cancellation, and especially the reason why it was cancelled.

I will email arc, I do not want a refund. I hope the funds will go to maintaining this wonderful forum we all enjoy.

2nd Amendment Defender

The Second Amendment is not about hunting or sport shooting.
Posts: 9937 | Location: FL | Registered: December 29, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
For real?
Picture of Chowser
posted Hide Post
I just emailed arc and told him not to refund me. The funds can be put towards to the forum.

Ditto. Thank you for having this place. It’s kept me sane through the years.

Not minority enough!
Posts: 6715 | Location: Cleveland, OH | Registered: August 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of mark60
posted Hide Post
Bummer. It speaks volumes when you say you were cool with the guy. I don't need a refund, mine can go to the forum or wherever you and Arc want to put it.
Posts: 2343 | Location: God Awful New York | Registered: July 01, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Green grass and
high tides
Picture of old rugged cross
posted Hide Post
Well that is to bad and sorry some body has to complain.

I to, do not need the funds back. If you can keep as a gift of support for the SF I would love for that to be the case.

Thanks Para and Arc.

"Practice like you want to play in the game"
Posts: 14956 | Registered: September 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of Greymann
posted Hide Post
I do not want a refund!
I was in to support "Sigforum", not to win anything.

I will email Arc.
Posts: 786 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: March 21, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nosce te ipsum
Picture of Woodman
posted Hide Post
Arc will have a deluge of emails ... No one will want their money orders and checks back. Maybe this is easier:

On behalf of all who participated, please accept our funds as donations towards operating expenses.

Those not in agreement, post in this thread. Wink
Posts: 7974 | Location: Mid-Atlantic Region | Registered: March 24, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
posted Hide Post
This for me

On behalf of all who participated, please accept our funds as donations towards operating expenses.

Posts: 1223 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: August 17, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted Hide Post
"anonymous complaint" about the raffle

One thing to consider (although I'm sure you already have): Sigforum is a public forum. You are not required to have an account or be logged in to read it, including the threads about the raffles. So it wasn't necessarily a member that complained. Perhaps it was just some bored SJW, who thinks "GUNS BAD" and has too much time on their hands, that found the raffle thread and decided they had found a way to mess with one of the more prominent gun-related forums on the web by logging a BS complaint and wasting your time.
Posts: 25614 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Cummings Custom Refinishing
posted Hide Post
Para I can't believe the world we are living in these days.

Whatever you decide to do with the gun we will honor our part and do the refinishing

Cummings Custom Refinishing offers Quality Craftsmanship at affordable prices. Fully Lic FFL's for over 29 years

Posts: 5098 | Location: Eastern Tn | Registered: March 29, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
Picture of 12131
posted Hide Post
Really sad that we have weasels among us. I despise "anonymous".
Posts: 20187 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
posted Hide Post
Please keep my donation as a small expression of my thanks to you and the others who keep this great forum running. (I'll follow-up with an email to Arc.)

And may the flaming jackwad who complained rot in hell!

"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
Posts: 18625 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
In search of baseball, strippers, and guns
posted Hide Post
I wonder what state it was

Originally posted by 12131:
Really sad that we have weasels among us. I despise "anonymous".


If the meek will inherit the earth, what will happen to us tigers?
Posts: 7700 | Location: Bristow, VA | Registered: July 09, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
posted Hide Post
I have no words other than Ridiculous. I would have loved to hear the "complaint". No good deed and all that....

NRA Training Counselor
NRA Benefactor Member
Posts: 2230 | Location: FL | Registered: May 07, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peripheral Visionary
posted Hide Post
I read this as I was walking into the post office to purchase my money order, trying to make sure i had the raffle details correct. Very disappointed to see this. Frown

If y'all decide to accept the raffle entry fees as donations I'd still like to send it along.

Posts: 10228 | Location: Texas | Registered: January 29, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
On the DL
Picture of V-Tail
posted Hide Post
Originally posted by 12131:

Really sad that we have weasels among us. I despise "anonymous".
I think not necessarily "among us."

RogueJSK correctly pointed out that anybody who has access to the internet has the ability to read almost every section of SIGforum, so it might very well have been an outsider. Or maybe a former member who ran afoul of the rules here, got banished, and is looking for revenge.

Thinking about this, I have a question: First, is it technically feasible (probably yes) to have certain areas of SIGforum that can only be read by members who are logged in? And second, would it be a good idea to do this?

The gun club that I belong to has a "Members Only" section on their website.

A mechanism like that could be used for things like this raffle, maybe even the classifieds.
Posts: 23777 | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of ShneaSIG
posted Hide Post
Originally posted by tigereye313:

If y'all decide to accept the raffle entry fees as donations I'd still like to send it along.

Same here.


Oh, by the way, which one's "Pink?"
Posts: 10979 | Location: MO | Registered: November 19, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
is circumspective
Picture of vinnybass
posted Hide Post
What the hell kind of small life does one have to lead to complain about such a thing?

"We're all travelers in this world. From the sweet grass to the packing house. Birth 'til death. We travel between the eternities."
Posts: 4661 | Location: Las Vegas, NV. | Registered: May 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigs are
my Panacea...
Picture of billpocz
posted Hide Post

Again, and probably said better by others, but a heartfelt "Thank You" to a glimpse into a totally different, behind-the-scenes facet of the forum that we do not usually see.

This forum is truly from the heart, and it really shows! The admin and members here are like no place else on the net, and words do not give enough meaning to that!

I truly despise the anonymous nature of the internet and our present culture. It would be a different set of circumstances if someone truly had an issue with this, and sent you an email...

Thanks for your heart and soul Para!


--- Sig 365, 365XL, 245, P6
Posts: 1920 | Location: Rural Northeastern KY | Registered: May 07, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    The P230 raffle is being cancelled

© SIGforum 2020