"... collecting shoes..."

Yeah, I hear that can be an expensive hobby.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

I believe he was already fatally hit at that point. One article I read had mentioned that he was shot in the chest or abdomen and in the "buttocks." The round he took as he was fleeing I'm guessing accounts for the round in the rear, but likely he was already a dead man walking...

What stopped him for the final time? I thought only a spine or brain shot stopped someone immediately.

LMAO.... fires his gun into the ceiling. He'd seen out too many movies.

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
What silliness...

“It is known to the legislators of the state of Florida that security guards are generally poor shots and that the 9mm and 38 Special cartridges pose little danger to innocent bystanders.”

What??? Is that seriously the reasoning? Don't Florida police use 9mm?

I’m being sarcastic and making fun of other types of governmental “reasoning,” but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if some legislator decided that private guards shouldn’t be armed with more powerful cartridges as a way of supposedly protecting the public.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:
What stopped him for the final time? I thought only a spine or brain shot stopped someone immediately.

Based on what I’ve been told by people who have been shot, it’s not uncommon for them to not feel the effects instantly. The BG’s final fall after the guard’s last shot didn’t seem to be a cut the puppet strings collapse, so although I’m only speculating, it could be that he was hit and a second or two passed before the pain hit him, causing him to go down.

But I’m also not impressed by the doctors who look at anatomy texts and confidently conclude as a result that the only way someone will be instantly incapacitated from a gunshot is by a central nervous system hit. There are many videos that show someone dropping as if poleaxed when shot and then seeming to demonstrate that they weren’t hit in the spine or brain. We don’t necessarily know everything based on gelatin tests and nervous system charts.

Fwiw:

"The Class “G” license holder is restricted by law to carrying firearms and ammunition of a specific range and caliber: a .38 caliber revolver; or a .380 caliber or .9 millimeter semiautomatic pistol; or a .357 caliber revolver with .38 caliber ammunition only; or a .40 caliber handgun; or a .45 ACP handgun. This restriction is set forth in section 493.6115, Florida Statutes.

The Class “G” license holder can carry other firearms by obtaining a waiver from these restrictions. The procedure for requesting a waiver is set forth below..." http://www.freshfromflorida.co...ing-a-Firearm-Waiver

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
"... collecting shoes..."
Yeah, I hear that can be an expensive hobby.

Cost him his life, not much perhaps, to anyone but himself.

quote:

LMAO.... fires his gun into the ceiling. He'd seen out too many movies.

It didn't look to me like he fired at the ceiling; just that he raised the gun, then upon seeing the guard, brought the muzzle back down as quickly as he could.

quote:

Can anyone tell if the robber took a round before he fell against the counter after walking in? He look like he hit pretty hard. Not sure if took a round or was shitting himself that someone else had a gun.

It looks like he might have, but if there were only two wounds, one from the front and one from the rear, I would say no. That's based on the assumption that he did get hit from the front while under the counter, as evidenced by what appears to be the round exiting his vest and exposing the white filling.

As many times as I've watched it, I've not seen any hits once the robber did his tactical roll. I've assumed that the guy got hit enough times on the ground and his heart was stopped before he even got rolling, he simply had to run out of oxygenated blood first. That roll, the getting up, and the next few steps could bled him out like that in the mere seconds that the pump station stopped pumping.

In no way meant as a criticism. But, in some jurisdictions I believe it can be problematic to continue to shoot after BG turns around and is fleeing. Or am I missing something.

Nevertheless, good outcome.

quote:

Originally posted by striker1:
Here's the full obituary:

"Laurence “Larry” R. Turner, 34, of Rockford SUDDENLY passed away Friday, January 20, 2017. Born July 31, 1982 in Rockford to Lawrence and Lucille (Terrazino) Turner. He enjoyed music, DJ-ing, recording music, sports, watching movies, especially science fiction movies, collecting shoes, and he loved animals. Larry will be most remembered for his big heart, and he would do anything for anyone.

Survivors include mother, Lucille Turner of Rockford; sister, Lauren Turner of Detroit, MI; grandmother, Sarah Terrazino of Rockford; aunts, Michela Terrazino of Mt. Horeb, WI, Renee (Tom) Becker of Lansing; girlfriend, Jackie Lenderman; godson, Michael; and several cousins. Predeceased by father, Lawrence Turner; grandparents, Dick and Virginia Turner, grandfather, Frank Terrazino; and uncle, Joseph Terrazino.

Funeral service will be held 2:00 p.m. Thursday, January 26, 2017 in Honquest Family Funeral Home with Crematory–Mulford Chapel, 4311 N. Mulford Road, Loves Park with a visitation from 12:00 p.m. until time of service. Burial in St. Patrick Countryside Cemetery, McHenry."

Fixed it for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
In no way meant as a criticism. But, in some jurisdictions I believe it can be problematic to continue to shoot after BG turns around and is fleeing. Or am I missing something.

Nevertheless, good outcome.

I agree that the outcome was 100% positive, but wondered the same. The last shot was at an unarmed fleeing criminal. Made absolutely no difference because the guy was already dead on his feet, but say the first shot was non-fatal. Would the guard have been in trouble for shooting him as he fled?

I'd imagine it is VERY difficult to resist the urge to keep shooting once the fight has begun. If a retired deputy that obviously knew what he was doing kept shooting, I doubt many of us would do much better at controlling the adrenaline.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
In no way meant as a criticism. But, in some jurisdictions I believe it can be problematic to continue to shoot after BG turns around and is fleeing. Or am I missing something.

Nevertheless, good outcome.

I agree that the outcome was 100% positive, but wondered the same. The last shot was at an unarmed fleeing criminal. Made absolutely no difference because the guy was already dead on his feet, but say the first shot was non-fatal. Would the guard have been in trouble for shooting him as he fled?

I'd imagine it is VERY difficult to resist the urge to keep shooting once the fight has begun. If a retired deputy that obviously knew what he was doing kept shooting, I doubt many of us would do much better at controlling the adrenaline.

There is no way the guard could have known he was fatally wounded and did not have another weapon at the time he fired at the guys back. He could have killed someone else to get their car, who knows? He was still a threat to everyone, possibly more so now that his situation grew so desperate.

I was surprised it took so long for someone to bring up the, “But he was running away when shot,” issue. I expected it to be mentioned in the first few replies.

It certainly could have been something that someone got spun up about, and could still surface in a lawsuit by one of the dear departed’s fans or family. There are some things to consider and possibly argue in defense of the guard’s actions, though.

First and foremost, it’s not clear from the videos that the guard would have known the robber was unarmed as he was fleeing. He dropped his gun in a spot that it might not have been visible to the guard, not to mention the fact that people in gunfights tend to focus on the threat (the robber) and not let their gaze wander around the room to see what else is happening. Being in a fight for one’s life isn’t like watching a YouTube video.

In addition, how was the guard to know that the robber didn’t have another gun? And if the robber was still armed, then he doesn’t stop posing a threat merely because he appears to be running away; he could have fired back at any point even if he didn’t stop and turn around (which he could have). That might be a point of argument, but it’s still an argument, not a settled fact.

I don’t know the law of the jurisdiction where the incident occurred, but if it were in Colorado and if the guard had peace officer (police) authority, he would have been legally justified in using deadly force to apprehend the robber (prevent him from getting away) under those circumstances even if he knew for certain that he was unarmed at that time.

In any event, the article specifically stated that the guard (a former deputy) would not face criminal charges, so someone in the DA’s office made the right decision either based on the law or common sense.

Awesome job by the guard. Zero to gunfight in minimum time indicate well trained & mentally prepared.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
I don’t know the law of the jurisdiction where the incident occurred, but if it were in Colorado and if the guard had peace officer (police) authority, he would have been legally justified in using deadly force to apprehend the robber (prevent him from getting away) under those circumstances even if he knew for certain that he was unarmed at that time.

Again, not criticising. But would the same apply to a civilian shooter?

quote:

Originally posted by arabiancowboy:
Awesome job by the guard. Zero to gunfight in minimum time indicate well trained & mentally prepared.

Welcome to police work. Zero to light speed in a second.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
"... collecting shoes..."

Yeah, I hear that can be an expensive hobby.

He doesn't need them anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
But would the same apply to a civilian shooter?

The statute I was referring to applies only to peace officers. This is what Colorado law says about using deadly force in a “citizen’s arrest”:

“A private person acting on his own account is justified in using reasonable and appropriate physical force upon another person when and to the extent that he reasonably believes it necessary to effect an arrest, or to prevent the escape from custody of an arrested person who has committed an offense in his presence; but he is justified in using deadly physical force for the purpose only when he reasonably believes it necessary to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of deadly physical force.” [Emphasis added.]

Would that apply under the circumstances of this incident? I personally wouldn’t want to have to convince a judge or jury of that, but it might work, especially if he could reasonably claim that he didn’t know the robber was unarmed. There was a case in Colorado several years ago in which the defendant shot and killed someone at the edge of his property driving away in a car. He claimed the “defense of one’s residence” statute justified his actions and much to my surprise the jury bought it. I myself, however, would never rely on something like that.

Surprised Momma hasn't come out and made a public statement on "They should have only wounded him".

Maybe she knows better.