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Gun control nut attacking my home range Peacemaker National Training Center in WV Login/Join 
Not your average
kind of girl
Picture of P226RN
posted
Just got word the end of last week that some asshat in Va has brought suit against the range for noise issues. Wv ranges in berkeley county are exempt from noise ordinance rules so I am not sure how it even got anywhere. But, to make matters worse they are exposing member information and the judge is allowing it. To say I am pissed off is an understatment. I am happy to say Allen West has taken notice and so there is hope that the defense will be able to do something to stop this. My fear is it is too late. This judge should be ashamed of themselves. There is ZERO reason to provide private details of memebers in a noise ordinance dispute! Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Linky
http://www.allenbwest.com/alle...nt-just-got-personal






We feel compelled to inform our members and customers regarding a recent court ruling related to PNTC’s private customer information.
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Specifically, a resident of Virginia has filed a nuisance complaint against PNTC alleging that noise from operation of the shooting range is a nuisance, and therefore interferes with his property rights. This complaint was filed in Berkeley County Circuit Court and is before Circuit Court Judge Grey Silver, styled Ben and Diane Goldstein v. Peacemaker Properties, LLC and Peacemaker National Training Center, LLC, Civil Action No. 15-C-520. Court documents filed in the case are public record and may be reviewed through the Circuit Clerk’s office.
Although our legal team pointed out that Berkeley County, WV specifically exempts shooting ranges from their noise ordinance and prevents nuisance claims against shooting ranges, the complaint was filed and not dismissed by the court. You may also access the Berkeley County Noise Ordinance at this link.

Despite numerous motions and requests to reconsider, and numerous mediation efforts with the plaintiff, the court has ordered PNTC to produce the below documents and other private records under a “Protective Order.” Under this order, the plaintiffs and their counsel are legally permitted to access the following information:

– All member files
– All waivers from any person who has accessed PNTC, to include all law enforcement, federal agency personnel, military personnel and foreign military personnel names
– All shooting competition files and lists
– All training information and lists
– All customer waivers
– Identities of all persons who have used PNTC ranges
– All ATF & NFA records (to include Forms 4473 and ATF bound book information)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: P226RN,




Remember to always be yourself. Unless you suck.
-Joss Whedon

 
Posts: 4734 | Location: Bye Bye Maryland! Hello WV! | Registered: May 12, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
posted Hide Post
That's unreal...and frankly infuriating.

I can only hope that there's a resolution here and consequences for the despicable people responsible for this, including the judge.


~Alan

Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Endowment)
Family, Guns, Country

"My guns are always loaded."
~R.G. Justified

What whiskey will not cure, there is no cure.
 
Posts: 17524 | Location: Out of Jersey, Into Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Who else?
Picture of Jager
posted Hide Post
It is my understanding that the suit was filed in 2011, prior to WV law providing for pre-existing ranges immunity from such lawsuits.

The release of members information is appalling, I'll give you that.

Pretty much any and every range I've been to on a regular basis has been sued for one thing or another. Supposed bullets sailing through properties and striking buildings (turned out to be done by the suit filer or just made up), noise (when their contract for the house was very clear about the existence of the range) and ultimately, lead poisoning the environment/water table.

Each case costed the range tens of thousands of dollars running into the hundreds of thousands. The lead abatement did force them to restructure the range for better drainage and accelerate the maintenance of the range (scavenging lead more frequently for reclamation). Each case was intended to shut the range down or as a shakedown for cash. Never to coexist. That's just a bumper sticker - which just about every liberal position can be summed up on.



Money.
 
Posts: 1959 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: October 30, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
posted Hide Post
Would it be reasonable for the club to appeal that ruling?

One presumes the club is incorporated? Therefor, ISTM inexpert view, the only possible purpose of that demand is, quite simply, to facilitate harassment.

Somebody tried that a few years ago, on a local club around here. Court told 'em "Club was here before you were. You moved in there knowing, or should have, the club and attendant noise existed." Told 'em to go pound sand.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
 
Posts: 11417 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Not your average
kind of girl
Picture of P226RN
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Didn't know the original date of filing as compared to WV law. Nothing, I repeat, nothing gives them the right to the memberships private information.




Remember to always be yourself. Unless you suck.
-Joss Whedon

 
Posts: 4734 | Location: Bye Bye Maryland! Hello WV! | Registered: May 12, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of sgalczyn
posted Hide Post
It's not wise to piss-off an entire gun club - that could be a lot of armament to deal with Wink


"No matter where you go - there you are"
 
Posts: 2971 | Location: Eastern PA-Berks/Lehigh Valley | Registered: January 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Skins2881
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quote:
Originally posted by P226RN:
Didn't know the original date of filing as compared to WV law. Nothing, I repeat, nothing gives them the right to the memberships private information.


That's complete BS. How is the members information pertinent to the case?



Jesse

A couple SIGs and a few others
 
Posts: 9597 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Administrator
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by P226RN:
the court has ordered PNTC to produce the below documents and other private records under a “Protective Order.” Under this order, the plaintiffs and their counsel are legally permitted to access the following information:

– All member files
– All waivers from any person who has accessed PNTC, to include all law enforcement, federal agency personnel, military personnel and foreign military personnel names
– All shooting competition files and lists
– All training information and lists
– All customer waivers
– Identities of all persons who have used PNTC ranges
– All ATF & NFA records (to include Forms 4473 and ATF bound book information)


The protective order allows the plaintiffs and their attorneys to see the documents. It may not allow them to distribute or publicize this information.

There is a difference between getting someone else's info legally, and being able to legally publicize it.

That having been said, I don't see why having individual member's information is necessary or even useful to the case. Maybe if you're on the range's Board of Directors or other leadership position, but what are they going to do with normal member's info?
 
Posts: 17001 | Registered: August 12, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Political Cynic
Picture of nhtagmember
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go after the people that brought the lawsuit

make them feel their pain

stuff like this really pisses me off



Peace is not the absence of conflict, but rather when you have your foot firmly on the enemies neck

"I'm only myself when I have a guitar in my hands." - George Harrison


 
Posts: 44695 | Location: Arizona | Registered: January 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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Class action lawsuit by the members for breach of privacy?

Bruce



Hanlon's Razor /prov./ A corollary of Finagle's Law, similar to Occam's Razor, that reads "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

"It is better to be considered a house cat and sit on the lap of pretty girls than to be feared as a tiger and hunted by men."- T. Takamatsu
 
Posts: 2316 | Location: NV | Registered: October 06, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Low Profile Member
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reminds me of many years ago during a divorce my x's attorney won a motion to have me produce business records which I would rather not have. I delivered about 100 boxes of old records to his reception area in an order and manner that were basically useless to him unless he wanted to take the time to sort through all that crap looking for what he wanted. Maybe your range could choke them with a van full of paper.
 
Posts: 2579 | Registered: August 19, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by nasig:
reminds me of many years ago during a divorce my x's attorney won a motion to have me produce business records which I would rather not have. I delivered about 100 boxes of old records to his reception area in an order and manner that were basically useless to him unless he wanted to take the time to sort through all that crap looking for what he wanted.
Nice work. Wink




I'm Rick James.
 
Posts: 35647 | Location: Around | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Corgis Rock
Picture of Icabod
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quote:
Originally posted by RNshooter:
Class action lawsuit by the members for breach of privacy?


Once this type of suit is dismissed, counter suits, while expensive, would have a chilling effect on this behavior.



“The best teacher is not the one who knows most but the one who is most capable of reducing knowledge to that simple compound of the obvious and wonderful.”
― H.L. Mencken
 
Posts: 4613 | Location: Outside Seattle | Registered: November 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of jbcummings
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Looking at Google maps, it looks like the gun club's shooting range lies mostly in Virginia even though the official address is in West Virginia. Ben Goldstein(69) who apparently lives over on Nettle Lane in Winchester, VA probably has an argument on that fact or at least technically. Honestly, the houses over on his loop are well out of range of anything except the noise which I would assume can't be all that bad given the distance (maybe half a mile or more?).


________________
"Qui desiderat pacem, bellum praeparat; nemo provocare ne offendere audet quem intelliget superiorem esse pugnaturem".
(Whosoever desires peace prepares for war; no one provokes, nor dares to offend, those who they know to be superior in battle.)
-- Flavius Vegetius Renatus,
 
Posts: 3371 | Location: N. Texas | Registered: May 21, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Step by step walk the thousand mile road
Picture of Sig2340
posted Hide Post
quote:
NFA records


These are federal tax records. I'd tell the judge to go fuck himself.



Nice is overrated

And people wonder why I carry a SIG P320

Death to Terrorists
 
Posts: 25570 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: May 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
When you fall, I will be there to catch you -With love, the floor
Picture of rscalzo
posted Hide Post
Legal Defense fund
https://www.gofundme.com/peacemakers-legal-fund

Seems like the lawyers were just throwing stuff out as from what I can see, that club has no reason to have any use for a 4473.


Richard Scalzo
Epping, NH

http://www.bigeastakitarescue.net
 
Posts: 4368 | Location: Epping, NH | Registered: October 16, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Not your average
kind of girl
Picture of P226RN
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Today this happened:
There is a fee petition hearing in the Honorable Judge Gray Silver's chambers in Berkeley County Circuit Court in Martinsburg WV at 1:30PM Monday March 20th 2017. The plaintiffs have entered a fee petition demand which will potentially require PNTC to pay the plaintiff attorney fees because PNTC argued and is being "be compelled" to release member, training, ATF, NFA, competition, and or other sensitive customer information. This hearing is open to the public.

Wednesday this happens Mad:
URGENT UPDATE: We have just been informed that the Plaintiff's attorneys under the court order will be reviewing privacy related documents beginning Wednesday March 22nd 2017




Remember to always be yourself. Unless you suck.
-Joss Whedon

 
Posts: 4734 | Location: Bye Bye Maryland! Hello WV! | Registered: May 12, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fire begets Fire
Picture of SIGnified
posted Hide Post
Where is the class action countersuit? There are real risks/damages from violating folks privacy.





"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
~Robert A. Heinlein
 
Posts: 22743 | Location: Row 2F | Registered: February 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Political Cynic
Picture of nhtagmember
posted Hide Post
exactly - a counter suit

ask for the name of every person on or related to the legal team that has had anything to do with the case

ask for the home address of every person on or related to the legal team that has had anything to do with the case

ask for the telephone numbers (home, cell, work) of every person on or related to the legal team that has had anything to do with the case

ask for the email addresses of every person on or related to the legal team that has had anything to do with the case

ask for a copy of each and every email from every person on or related to the legal team that has had anything to do with the case


in short, do to them what they are doing to you and tell the judge that its need in order to properly represent yourself during the defense to make sure the legal team is not being unduly interfered with

hell, I'd even ask for vehicle registration and mileage records as well



Peace is not the absence of conflict, but rather when you have your foot firmly on the enemies neck

"I'm only myself when I have a guitar in my hands." - George Harrison


 
Posts: 44695 | Location: Arizona | Registered: January 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Glorious SPAM!
Picture of mbinky
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LDD:
That having been said, I don't see why having individual member's information is necessary or even useful to the case. Maybe if you're on the range's Board of Directors or other leadership position, but what are they going to do with normal member's info?


Why, to "leak" it to Bloomberg and other anti-gun groups of course.
 
Posts: 6553 | Registered: June 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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