I would think the best security would be to put a sign up welcoming concealed carry and perhaps open carry if the laws so allow.

I expect in the next five years, you will have law firms that will specialize in lawsuits against churches. Why? Because it is a target rich environment.

I don't want to seem like on a soap box, but I will tell you the day that churches will have the pants sued off of them for minor incidents are coming. God help everyone if there is a shooting and it is so so.

I liken church security teams to SWAT teams in the 90s. Everyone had one. Everyone wanted to be on one. And the Supreme Court pretty quickly determined that if you put on black nomex and an MP5, you are judged to the same level of liability as LAPD SWAT. Doesn't matter if you're from Dogknuckle Arkansas in a nine man agency. Walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, then it is a by God duck. And the lawsuits started. Lots of agencies that didn't want to properly train and equip got eviscerated. Now, as few places as I have ever seen in the last 22 years have SWAT teams. They call in teams from neighboring communities if they need them. Which is pretty good, because the teams left standing are generally pretty well trained and funded as they need to be.

This is the future of church security. The church will be the deep pockets target that the suit will go after, but not before you having to provide your finances and all the requested documentation and the possibility that you may have to have your own attorney and be out of pocket for that.

Will your churches counsel hang the security team members out to dry to try to lessen the liability of the church? That is a good question. If you get your kid out of the line of fire and fail to react to your "security duty" will they hang you out to dry? First thing we tell rookie cops is that if they go to an active shooter, and they come across their family and they are dead, wounded or perfectly fine, get them out. Now. They are no good to us if they bypass their kids, dead or otherwise, because their minds won't be on hunting. How will people react to that, and are you going to get nailed in civil liability in court over it? Who will speak for you within the church leadership? Or when the bills and counter proposals start rolling in that will shift the burden to your checking account, will they hang you out to dry? I guess the best thing to ask is there a person in a position of power that has the authority to have your back. It is a bad feeling to dump some guy that you perceive to be a threat only to find out that they aren't going to back you, and their lawyer is going to paint you as an out of control cowboy.

Guns in churches are a great idea. Having church security teams are a solid idea. But, having a bunch of guys that view their CCDW as the equivalent of a Doctorate in gunfighting is absurd. Asking the question "How much training have you had" and hearing the answer "Well, I got my CCDW" isn't comforting to anyone that knows much about liability and standards for CCDW.

Also, show me any professional, modern outfit that is primarily tasked with providing armed security on a professional level that runs around armed with J-frames, LCPs, and other pocket guns with the impressive 5 second draw speed. The professional security organizations are going to be the same standard that church security teams are going to be viewed as. And it will be the thing that buries them in a civil suit. No training, no training records, no organization....all hung up for display with the word "team" attached. I've noticed that churches seem to want to be protected by Delta Force, but they don't want to pay for anything like training.

I'm not looking down on anyone, nor debating the need. There is a need for guns in churches. But, when you add some form or organization, no matter how formal, you will be the same duck as any professionally trained security team. Is that comparison that will lead to the ruling against you worth your house, your savings, etc?

Carry a gun. Protect those that you can. Just pass on the whole "team" thing unless the church is going to shell out the money to actually train you to do actual security. Unless the church is going to require the "team" members to carry a service sized pistol that is actually in service with professionals providing security and hold them to standards/qualifications with said pistol.

Don't be that duck.

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Originally posted by striker1:

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Originally posted by jimmy123x:

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Originally posted by jcsabolt2:

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Originally posted by YellowJacket:
Do you have any training?

I have my CCW and have taken an advanced handgun combat course about 10 years ago.

Our church actually has a pretty robust security plan that has been reviewed by local law enforcement and have some LEOs on the security team. That's about the extent of what I know right now.

The first thing you should do is get your state's security guard license.

Why? A better option would be to first find out what the laws in your State have to say about the matter, and contact the attorney for the church.

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I'm not sure in your state, but here in Florida there is a short course and you get licensed. If things go South this is the first thing the state is going to look for.

On what are you basing the second part of your comment?

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Personally, I wouldn't touch it for liability reasons. The church would have to carry liability insurance for me, for me to even remotely consider doing that. Your Church is probably better off (for liability reasons) for hiring an off duty police officer to cover masses.

My friend is a full time security guard for a very large church, but he is not armed.

Once again, with the “I have a friend/customer/etc”!

Have you personally looked into this? Have you attended even a single meeting about church security?

WHY- Because the OP would be doing the role of an armed security guard, even if he isn't being paid for it. The course teaches LEGAL ASPECTS OF USE, which is pretty important when you don't want to be sued. This is what the state will be looking for, whether the force was justified in a public setting and with people around everywhere. Whether the force was legal. The state will be looking into IF the OP has any business being in the role of ARMED security guard. If he has a state armed security guard license, it will end ALL questions regarding whether or not the OP had the right training and is fit to be an armed security guard. The OP will know WHEN and WHERE force is justified after learning all of the laws in the class. The OP will then be able to properly answer their questions to justify his actions. There will be a lot less questions IF the OP has the armed security guard license, rather than operating in a grey area of being an armed security guard, yet not being paid as one. If the church provides a uniform, a lawyer could argue that the OP is being compensated.

Church security yes- My friend is head of security for a very large, televised church. They do not arm themselves for LIABILITY reasons and have had many discussions on that. I've helped out a few times, like after the last hurricane we had. They hire off duty police officers for when they have church service (they have a lot of cash donations), because if something hit the fan, the city will get sued and not the church, the off duty police officer falls under the cities responsibility. Also, if a lawyer gets involved and questions whether the use of force is justified, again, that would be directed at the police department and it's a lot harder to argue that it was not justified with a trained veteran police officer. Not to mention more police backup is a click of his radio and three sentences away, not 3-10 minutes on 911.


Edited to add: Also here in Florida, there are only 2 pistols that are approved for armed security guards to carry: A .38 special revolver and most recently a 9mm pistol was added. It is similar in most states. If an issue occurs and the state feels the OP is an armed security guard and should be licensed (and is not) and is carrying/used a non approved handgun (caliber or type) that could also create a huge legal issue. Remember the state attorneys office has unlimited funds to pursue a case. The OP and the church don't.

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