quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
Call me old fashioned, but I'd like the "report" to have a little more info such as how it happened. I am doubtful the lab mix just went full retard and repeatedly jumped up to bite the guy in the face.

Did the bitee get in the dog's space? Did the dog perceive him as a threat for some reason? Was the dog on a leash?

Really hard to make sense of it and decide what level of outrage I should have when the only thing reported is the outcome...

Along those lines, the article said he was bitten in the face? Although we we don't know the circumstances it seems odd where he was bitten. He made have bent down to pet the dog or give it a kiss. Some people really like to get in a dogs space.

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
My emotional support stripper changes extra to bite you.

Hmm.. I think I want to travel with you. Do they come in pairs?

I read The dog was growling before it attacked and it happened while everyone was seated. That's why it was easy for him to get bitten the face.

Years ago, Mrs. slosig and I used to fly everywhere with our three dogs (two Aussies and a lab/Queensland mix). They did fly in the baggage compartment, but in that Cessna 140 they were sitting on the luggage right behind our bench seat. I can't imagine ever taking a dog on a airline flight though. I hate subjecting myself to that experience, I sure wouldn't abuse a dog like that.

quote:

Originally posted by sig229-SAS:

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
Call me old fashioned, but I'd like the "report" to have a little more info such as how it happened. I am doubtful the lab mix just went full retard and repeatedly jumped up to bite the guy in the face.

Did the bitee get in the dog's space? Did the dog perceive him as a threat for some reason? Was the dog on a leash?

Really hard to make sense of it and decide what level of outrage I should have when the only thing reported is the outcome...

Along those lines, the article said he was bitten in the face? Although we we don't know the circumstances it seems odd where he was bitten. He made have bent down to pet the dog or give it a kiss. Some people really like to get in a dogs space.

Give the dog a kiss? Really?

If the dog is in the guy's lap, he's already at eye level with it. And if it were because he was bending down, he more likely was reaching for something under his seat like his carry on bag.

Give the dog a kiss...you guys crack me up.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by sig229-SAS:

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
Call me old fashioned, but I'd like the "report" to have a little more info such as how it happened. I am doubtful the lab mix just went full retard and repeatedly jumped up to bite the guy in the face.

Did the bitee get in the dog's space? Did the dog perceive him as a threat for some reason? Was the dog on a leash?

Really hard to make sense of it and decide what level of outrage I should have when the only thing reported is the outcome...

Along those lines, the article said he was bitten in the face? Although we we don't know the circumstances it seems odd where he was bitten. He made have bent down to pet the dog or give it a kiss. Some people really like to get in a dogs space.

Give the dog a kiss? Really?

If the dog is in the guy's lap, he's already at eye level with it. And if it were because he was bending down, he more likely was reaching for something under his seat like his carry on bag.

Give the dog a kiss...you guys crack me up.

It apparently wasn't a trained service dog, potentially in the lap of an anxious handler, potentially suffering it's own anxiety due to the environment. Maybe it felt threatened by the mere presence of the other passenger. If it was growling, as reported, it was warning that it felt a threat was present. Anxious/fearful dogs often mis-identify harmless people and other animals as threats. Certainly could have been that the guy leaned towards the dog unintentionally, or maybe just his proximity was all it took, but yeah, he could have tried to give it a kiss.

Recall the below example. If you know how to read dogs, you can tell the dog is not comfortable at all with what's going on. It had recently survived a near-death experience, and then was put in an unfamiliar, stressful environment, yet the reporter is oblivious to all these things and goes in for a smooch.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tuqkNSW94s

quote:

I don't want to live in a Mexican bus culture.

Fair enough.

But if Air Travel or the world are leaning Mexican-Bus, I don't think it's the dogs that are the problem...

As others have written there is just no way this was a trained *legitimate* service dog.

Every single service dog I've been around, and I've been around hundreds, would absolutely NEVER bite a person.

Ok, ok. Maybe not NEVER, if the dog were being attacked or his person were being attacked then MAYBE.

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
I seriously doubt the abuse of the designation is as high as you would like to believe.

Perhaps the abuse is regional, or even generational. I invite you to our small town which is richly populated with retirees. Every third person/couple entering Safeway is carrying their precious Fifi, usually a <15 lb breed, who then rides in the kiddy part of the shopping cart. I also see this when I go to the Phoenix area big box stores. Again, almost all retirees. I can just see me leading our 130 lb Irish Wolfhound comfort dog into Safeway.
 

I don't know how to read a dogs mannerisms, and doing so shouldn't be a prerequisite for air travel. I would be extremely uncomfortable with a 50 lbs dog sitting at my face level for a flight, and would probably refuse that seat. Delta should not force someone to sit next to an animal. I'm not a fan of our sue happy culture, but what other recourse is there?

quote:

Originally posted by gpbst3:

quote:

Originally posted by joel9507:
With adult supervision back, perhaps the Americans with Disabilities Act - which makes it illegal to ask what the disability might be, and what the peccary/turkey/tarantula/whatever might be trained to do to address it - could be amended to address this nonsense.

Its illegal for the airline to question the legitimacy of the service dog. Now if the passenger who got bit files a lawsuit do they have the ability to subpoena the dogs certification and show it is legit or printed off the internet?

A civil suit against the owner of a dog that bit you in those circumstances -be it service/emotional support/whatever - would be worth exploring, for sure. The discovery process would wind up being pretty thorough, I'd expect, and you'd find out the breeder's name, the temperament of the dog's ancestors and siblings, whether the dog's done things like that before, their training (or lack of same) etc. etc. etc.

http://www.nola.com/news/index...ml#incart_river_home

The most recent post includes pictures.

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:
Is there a difference between a service dog and a emotional support critter?

Big difference . Leading the blind, locate bombs, drugs, missing people versus the other which is to babysit a retard or whacko.

I'm glad I'm not the only one sick of people slapping signs on their dogs and taking them everywhere. I have seen too many people with some self proclaimed problem self prescribing a service dog when it's obvious the dog is not a true service dog.

quote:

Originally posted by SIP2000GLO:

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:
Is there a difference between a service dog and a emotional support critter?

Big difference . Leading the blind, locate bombs, drugs, missing people versus the other which is to babysit a retard or whacko.

Are we really going to call what sounds like a military guy who maybe has PTSD a retard or whacko?

I may be wrong here, and I am just as disgusted with the misuse and mislabeling of pets as anyone else, but retard isn't a word I'd ever use.

Per the report (which may be wrong, or perhaps I misread), it said owner was "issued" the animal. Granted it doesn't make sense, as I would suspect any military trained animal to be well trained, and this dog sure wasn't, but right now we don't know where this guy's been, or what he's been through. If it is PTSD, I wonder what effect the sound of jet engines revving up would have on him- never had it, never want to, but I suspect it's terrifying, depending on what trick your brain wants to play.

It says something to me that Delta put him on another plane with his dog (albeit crated this time). I'm sure they had the option to refuse to fly him anywhere after that little nightmare, but they brought him to his destination- with the animal.

I hate to say it, but without knowing more, I think the dog should probably be euthanized for that level of aggression. It went after the other passenger not once, but twice after being pulled off him initially. And I'm fairly confident Delta doesn't allow any animals to sit on a seat- they all have to be ground level, I thought. And yes, we've all seen pics of pets in the seats, but the flight attendants can't be everywhere at once, we know that, too.

This whole incident will hopefully tighten legislation on the ridiculous posing of pets on flights for a cheaper ride. Really, it's sad for all involved here (and I don't mean the posers- they can pay for their pet like everyone else).

If the guy has PTSD, there are medical professionals along with the right medications that can help subdue his symptoms.

An emotional support dog will do nothing for him. And if he needs an animal for "emotional support", he definitely has more problems than PTSD.

Actual, trained Service Dogs are extremely effective in the treatment of PTSD. The training they go through is as extensive as any other Working Dog. Not every dog makes it, and there is a washout rate for everything from temperament to lack of necessary obedience. They are expected to do everything from get medicine, wake/snap they handler out of panic/anxiety attacks or flashbacks, and navigate crowds and potentially stressful situations. They are 100% in tune with their handler.

I've been working with Service Dogs for Vets with PTSD for about 2 years now (I know there are others here on SF too). I've watched these dogs bring back Vets from some very dark places (e.g., eating a bullet, destroying their family, losing everything). These are NOT emotional support dogs, and have been critical in fighting our Vet suicide rate when things like meds aren't working.

Now these dogs are damn expensive ($10-20k/dog to train), and are in short supply. As with every supply/demand problem, something fills the void. It's my understanding that less qualified/trained "companion" dogs are starting to be used. Maybe that's what this was. I don't know. The VA is not the only game in town. There are tons of organizations with varying levels of standards.

What I feel confident about is that this was NOT a Service Dog, but that's no reason to doubt this MARINE's condition, the effectiveness of Service Dogs, or to call him names.

With all that being said, I agree with most of the comments about the emotional support animal trend. I can't stand the abuse of the Service Dog title by folks that just want to spend more time with Fido. It's the canine equivalent of the Crazy Cat Lady.