quote:

Tacoma doesn't get the media time that San Francisco and Seattle do on the matter, but it's just as bad or worse, depending on where you go.

Concur that Tacoma is a shit hole. I usually never have to stop there while working, especially since I have started flying to PDX more than SEATAC, since the rental car place is attached to the PDX airport instead of having to do the shuttle of pain at SEATAC which costs you about 45 minutes.

Some beautiful sights out there, outside the urban areas but it's not remotely worth living there. Glad my job gets me out there for 2-3 weeks a year, but having done that for the last 7 years the decay is readily apparent.

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
It sounded like the mayor was just defending himself from a newspaper article that was accusing the cops of profiling homeless people. He went on to say that cops aren't trained to be social workers and that social work-type calls take them away from real policing.
I thought he did a passable job of stating the problem, not throwing the cops under the bus, and walking the line so he doesn't piss off the liberals.
Not perfect, but some damned fine politicianing, right there. I don't envy him his job.

Bruce

Bullshit. Wheeler is just another in a long line of mealy-mouthed liberal agenda pushers. There might or might not be an "investigation" into the issue, but it's a given that there will be new "guidelines" issued for the cops.

quote:

The mayor said people who are experiencing homelessness or who have mental health and addiction issues should have fewer interactions with police and more with social service providers.

He said he wants to know what's driving the statistics.

"The real question here is, 'Is there some sort of profiling or implicit bias?'" Wheeler said. "From my perspective, that's the crux of the situation. The police should be focused on policing criminal activity, and that's sort of the beginning, the middle and the end of it for me."

Translation: "Never mind that the homeless are committing a disproportionately high percentage of crimes, we need the police to stop picking on them. After all, it's not their fault that they're all meth-heads or crack-heads, they should get a pass."

Here's another one: For the last month or so there's been an ongoing protest at the local ICE office about the incarceration of illegals. Hundreds of people camped out all around the building, blocking access, vandalizing security cameras, all the while demanding the disbanding of ICE. People who live in the area have complained about the activity steadily. Wheeler's response? The Portland PD is prohibited from taking any action against the protesters. DHS/ICE finally had to bring in federal officers to restore some semblance of normal operations.

I don't know the man. If he got elected in that town, he's almost certainly a bottom feeder.
However, saying that the homeless and mentally ill need more contact with social workers than police sounds good to me, if the situation warrants a social worker. Cops and ER staff are lousy social workers.
If the situation warrants some handcuffs and a long stay in a small room, the cops are the right call.

Different tools for different situations. Unfortunately, the cops and the ER are the catch-all, when nobody knows what to do. "Call a cop, they'll think of something" is a shitty strategy.

Bruce

quote:

"Half the arrests last year were of homeless people."

OK. So... get busy arresting the other half!

The link has several charts, graphs, and twitter posts I cannot copy.

https://www.oregonlive.com/exp...ml#incart_most-read_

Police union leader calls Portland a 'cesspool.' What Portlanders have to say

By Rebecca Woolington and Melissa Lewis | The Oregonian/OregonLive |
Posted July 17, 2018 at 04:13 PM | Updated July 17, 2018 at 06:33 PM

A police union leader's assertion Monday that Portland "has become a cesspool" elicited strong responses from readers, local leaders, organizations and homeless advocates.

Daryl Turner, president of the Portland Police Association, made the remarks in a statement posted on the union's Facebook page while defending the way that officers interact with homeless people. He slammed Mayor Ted Wheeler's response to homelessness and an investigation into whether police are unfairly targeting people who live outside.

Responses to Turner range from people calling on him to run for mayor to people saying his words are evidence of police bias against homeless people.

Turner's statement on Monday described what he labeled as "livability" issues such as feces at the doorstep of businesses and aggressive panhandlers.

The union's statement was in response to remarks the mayor made to the The Oregonian/OregonLive's editorial board last week, acknowledging it's a problem that half of the arrests police made last year were of homeless people.

A newsroom analysis published last month showed homeless people accounted for 52 percent of arrests while making up less than 3 percent of the population. The investigation found that police most often arrested homeless people on property, drug or low-level crimes. The vast majority of the arrests, 86 percent, were for non-violent crimes, the analysis found.

Wheeler, who serves as police commissioner, and Police Chief Danielle Outlaw have both said being homeless is not a crime.

Police say a lack of housing, mental health and addiction treatment drive the arrests up. They say they've seen a spike in calls to 911 and their non-emergency line about homeless people. Police also increased searches for wanted people at homeless encampments last year.

After the newsroom's investigation, the American Civil Liberties Union of Oregon called on Wheeler and Police Chief Danielle Outlaw to investigate whether officers are profiling people who are homeless.

The city's police oversight agency, the Independent Police Review, has launched an inquiry into how police interact with homeless people in response to the newsroom's reporting and the ACLU's complaint. Outlaw requested the investigation.

Through a spokesman, the chief on Tuesday would not directly respond to Turner's comments, but provided a statement about why she asked the Independent Police Review to investigate.

"I requested IPR to review the data to assist me in determining if there were any PPB systems or policies that lead to unintended consequences or misalignment with the Bureau's mission, vision and values," the chief said. "My officers do an amazing job with the tools they are given, and are often expected by some to solve societal problems outside of the scope of their duties and/or realm of influence. We understand that we are first responders and, at times, meet those within our community at the lowest points of their lives due to varying factors (some outside of their control). As such, we do our best to be strong partners with providers in order to connect those in need with services, while recognizing we are but one cog in the wheel of the justice and mental health systems. We are a learning organization and will continue seek opportunities to improve the service we provide by being introspective, engaging our critics, and working with all stakeholders toward meaningful and sustainable resolutions."

Last week, the mayor told the editorial board that people who are experiencing homelessness or who have mental health and addiction issues should interact less with police and more with social service providers. But he praised officers for trying to connect homeless people with services and said arrests are "their last choice."

Wheeler said he wants to learn what's driving the arrests.

In his statement Monday, Turner took particular issue with the mayor telling the newsroom that the city must determine whether officers are profiling homeless people. Turner said the mayor was throwing police under the bus because of his own failed policies to end homelessness.

"What we need is for our City and County leaders to take responsibility for this crisis getting out of hand," Turner wrote. "They need to put forth actual solutions with actual results and stop throwing hard-earned taxpayer dollars down a black hole."

Denis Theriault, spokesman for the Joint Office of Homeless Services, took issue with Turner's assertions. The Joint Office is funded by the city and county and coordinates funding and sets policy for homeless services across Multnomah County.

"It's shocking that anyone would call the nearly 30,000 men, women and children who worked with our service providers last year to rebuild their lives and regain a sense of community -- moving back into housing, avoiding homelessness by staying housed, or finding shelter -- "a black hole," Theriault said in a statement.

He said because of efforts in the community, the office continues to help more people. He also praised the role police have played.

"The police officers working on our streets have been engaged partners in this progress, balancing community concerns around livability with the meaningful connections that help bring people to the services that will one day end their homelessness," he said.

Here's how readers, other local leaders, organizations and homeless advocates are reacting to the union's message:

(multiple Twitter posts shown here, use the link)

My limited experience showed me that the homeless do not want help. They refuse shelter because they cant drink, do drugs, or fuck each other. Those things are more important to them than food & shelter.

quote:

"Half the arrests last year were of homeless people."

Have you looked at the Emergency Rooms and Ambulance calls? Not 50%, but a High percentage there too, and sucking a lot of dollars and resources.

It would be one thing if this mayor stated that, 'Our cops are stretched thin, we can't call on the cops to solve every social problem.' The reality is, like all urban city mayors, is they like to set-up these ham-fisted us-vs-them statements about police over-reach and alleged abuse.

If this mayor was genuine about addressing their homeless/druggy problem, they'd hire a shit-ton of social workers to canvas the streets to engage the living-shit out of these folks instead of having the police do this work. The homeless would get the message, if I'm going to squat, be a nusance or, shoot-up in this town, I'm gonna have a do-gooder social worker following me and bugging me, everywhere I go. Instead, the cops are left to do this, their job is law enforcement. You break the law, you get fined, cited and/or arrested. You provide resistance, than force will be applied appropriately, continue to break the law and they'll continue to follow you.

quote:

Originally posted by BadDogPSD:
My limited experience showed me that the homeless do not want help. They refuse shelter because they cant drink, do drugs, or fuck each other. Those things are more important to them than food & shelter.

I was just in Portland for four days, seemed really nice... but I work in downtown Seattle.

Both are just crapholes, gonna move to NoVA

quote:

Originally posted by BadDogPSD:
My limited experience showed me that the homeless do not want help. They refuse shelter because they cant drink, do drugs, or fuck each other. Those things are more important to them than food & shelter.

Last month Pierce Country cleaned out a homeless camp.(outside of Tacoma)

First was the stance:
““We are not calling these groups homeless; it does a disservice to the people who are really homeless that need services, that don’t want to be homeless. A lot of people, we understand, have fallen on hard times-- we want to get those people services,” Pierce County Sheriff’s Department spokesperson Ed Troyer said.”

Second were the attempts to provide services to the inhabitants:
“They were offered services. We even offered them jobs with labor people for a few months,” Troyer said.
He added that all their offers were rejected, including money to help clean up their own mess.
“Stolen bikes and toys and battery-powered cars (were left behind) -- and there is no children there. So it shows they were taking things not tied down in their neighborhood and stealing. We had one store that had 90 complaints in one month," Troyer said.”

My understanding is that the attempts to help went on for a month or more. Social workers, counselors, drug rehabilitation people all visited and offered help.

The cost:
“Troyer says it took 300 hours to clean up 30 tons of trash, human feces and drug paraphernalia left behind.
There were so many hypodermic needles that it took eight of the one-gallon containers to haul them away.”

Where did the inhabitants go?
“The campers didn’t tell deputies where they were headed next, but Troyer said wouldn’t be surprised if they ended up in Seattle.”
“With Seattle kind of sending out the invitation to come up there, I wouldn’t be surprised if they showed up there. But we are not sending them there,” Troyer said.”


https://q13fox.com/2018/06/01/...ead-sending-invites/

Thirty years back the City I worked for had issues with bums that rode the rails, now probably called "homeless". They came to town for the temperate months, then moved out.

A few of us on the PD started working them, whereas the guys with seniority let them go. One of these "They have ALWAYS been here" attitudes.

We would stop them as they got off the freight train and ID them, then mention we did WORK at the City jail. IF arrested you would be required to work 8 hours a day. THAT word; WORK, was the big one. Usually half would get on the next train and leave.

If there are homeless that want help I have never found one. All I ever saw was mental illness, drug and alcohol abuse with criminal activity.

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
Unfortunately, the cops and the ER are the catch-all, when nobody knows what to do. "Call a cop, they'll think of something" is a shitty strategy.

This right here. Calling the cops on the mentally ill is a horrible idea. But, since society decided to shut down institutions, and they don't lock people up for mental illness these days, this is what you get. Mental Illness and drug abuse are huge causations to the homeless problem.

Go hang out around a soup kitchen around feeding time. Watch what happens. The amount of litter that gets thrown all over from the styrofoam food trays is enormous. And guess what? Nobody cares as not to sully the "good work" that the kitchen does for the "less fortunate".

I had a guy when I worked patrol that was a chronic alcoholic. We had a running joke that you didn't graduate field training with me until you arrested this guy for Public Intoxication. One night I was riding with a trainee and we saw a guy pissing on the hood of a car with two people inside of it. We rolled up, turned on the spotlight, and low and behold it was my man Pete. He was on a bender, and a good one. He smelled horrible. The trainee hooked him and we transported him. Every trainee over a period of about two years had a Pete story. Pete would tell you about being a Vietnam Vet to play on your sympathy to attempt to get out of the arrest. Pete had family in the area, who would take care of him, on the condition that he would not drink. Pete refused. Pete passed out one night in December on a bender, and got frostbite on his feet. They amputated both legs at the knees. Once Pete got out of the hospital, he went back at drinking like it was a sport. We went back to arresting him for public intoxication. He failed to take care of his wounds and caught gangrene. It damn near killed him. My boss sent me to the hospital to try to see if I couldn't talk him into being placed. I had the most experience with him than anyone else in that sector because I actually had contact with him more than he was arrested. He lived under a specific bridge, and sat in only two or three spots. I spent three weeks with the VA as he was indeed a veteran, and got him a placement. Pete refused. He died on the street three months later.

Pete's story isn't new or special. It is common. Until we recognize the issue, and actually address it as what it is, places like SFO and Portland are going to continue to rot from within.