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quote:
Originally posted by darthfuster:
Sorry. Pope is a knucklehead.


This is about as far as I would go in criticizing him. For all in this thread that are telling him to FOAD and calling him filthy names, he's not...He simply holds an opinion that differs from ours. Stop it.
 
Posts: 1854 | Location: Colorado | Registered: October 31, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Fenris:
I was born Catholic.
I will die Catholic.
I will not listen to this Pope.


+1 Fenris ...

quote:
Originally posted by Opus Dei:
That was quite a moment in history when JPII, Reagan and Thatcher were all in office.
We had a pretty close working relationship with Brian Mulroney (Canada) and Robert Hawke (Australia) at that time, as I remember.[/QUOTE]

... indeed great halcyon days with Bob Hawke the Aussie PM.

We know that religion and politics do not mix ... but behind walls that a trumpet likely couldn't bring down, goat feel so smug.



We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~ Benjamin Franklin.

"If anyone in this country doesn't minimise their tax, they want their head read, because as a government, you are not spending it that well, that we should be donating extra...:
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Posts: 1886 | Location: Altona Beach | Registered: February 20, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
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quote:
Originally posted by MNSIG:
quote:
Originally posted by chellim1:
6. Every dollar that I donate is already taxed when I earn it. So if I donate it for the charitable works of the church, or even just for church maintenance and upkeep at my local parish, you want it taxed again?


Don't you itemize charitable donations?


It's a fair point, so I took it off the list.
Actually, most people don't itemize deductions. Most people, unless they have a large mortgage, just take the standard deduction. It's a lot less hassle.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 23946 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Dresden:
The Pope is not infallible, at least in this case. He's wrong on these worldly affairs.


Papal infallibility does not extend to every word spoken by the Pope. Never has.
 
Posts: 545 | Location: Ohio | Registered: April 13, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Dresden:
This is about as far as I would go in criticizing him. For all in this thread that are telling him to FOAD and calling him filthy names, he's not...He simply holds an opinion that differs from ours. Stop it.


Sorry, I have to disagree with the opinion that the pope is just a person who holds different opinions.

People in positions of worldwide influence wield incredible power and their opinions matter way more than the average Joe's. This is not opinion, it's fact. His opinions, statements and actions can affect the entire planet.

Espousing communist ideals and giving comfort to egregious leaders who have or would enslave millions is more than just a simple difference of opinion. He has criticized western civilization and the United States, which has freed more people from the yoke of oppression, allowing them to worship as they see fit, than any other movement in the history of the world.

He is a cancer and the sooner he is removed from power, the better it will be for mankind.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BamaJeepster,



“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
- John Adams
 
Posts: 29408 | Location: In the red hinterlands of Deep Blue VA | Registered: June 29, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
10mm is The
Boom of Doom
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Popes come. Popes go.

Mother Church is forever. The Faith will survive.




The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People again must learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. ~ Cicero 55 BC

The Dhimocrats love America like ticks love a hound.
 
Posts: 17459 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: November 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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In "Shoes of the Fisherman" (1968) Anthony Quinn plays a Pope that decides to liquidate the assets of the Catholic Church.

The wealth of the church in America is estimated at 170 billion dollars.

Think of how redistribution of wealth will help the refugees, immigrants, homeless, etc.
https://www.economist.com/blog...holic-church-america



“ The work of destruction is quick, easy and exhilarating; the work of creation is slow, laborious and dull.
 
Posts: 6060 | Location: Outside Seattle | Registered: November 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by chellim1:
1. 1st of all, most Catholics ignore him.
Ok...
quote:
2. He's not in the United States or subject to US law
A huge portion of the church he represents resides in the US and enjoys tax exempt status, so what he says and does is directly attributable to those churches.
quote:
3. You would have to also revoke the non-profit status of every religious organization, because they all have leaders who make political statements.
Perhaps, but perhaps not given other churches would likely opt to stay out of the political world all together as they witnessed the Catholic church lose its tax exempt status. An example sent...
quote:
4. What about all of the hospitals? Most of the hospitals are or were started as Catholic institutions.
Key emphasis on the word 'were'. Most are now for profit corporates, and the few that aren't could be accommodated.
quote:
5. What about all of the schools? The public schools would have to take the students of course, but could they handle them, all at once? Not around here they couldn't.
Not sure exactly what you're referencing, but I doubt the Catholic church would completely fold up ops just because they lost their tax exempt status.
quote:
So if I donate it for the charitable works of the church, or even just for church maintenance and upkeep at my local parish, you want it taxed again?
Almost every dollar out of yours and my pockets for anything is double, triple, or quadruple taxed. I see this as no different. And I also donate to my church.

This pope and the current Catholic church seem to recognize 'zero' boundaries when it comes to meddling in political issues. It needs to stop, and money always tends to be a good motivator.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 33845 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
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quote:
This pope and the current Catholic church seem to recognize 'zero' boundaries when it comes to meddling in political issues. It needs to stop, and money always tends to be a good motivator.

What really bothers me is that the Church is in bed with the US federal government to bring in and re-settle illegal immigrants. It's called Catholic Charity Refugee Services, and it's funded directly by your and my tax dollars. I am very much opposed to this.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 23946 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The Pope should get his own house in order,before he starts lecturing the nations.


Catholic Church and local authorities criticized for claiming child sex abuse victims 'consented'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new....mc_id=tmgoff_fb_tmg



The Catholic Church and local authorities have been criticised after trying to claim child sex abuse victims "consented" in a bid to avoid compensation payouts.

Lawyers who represent some of the victims have told the Sunday Telegraph that the defence is more frequently being used by private schools, religious groups and local authorities when trying to defend compensation claims.

The revelation comes after news that the Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme, a Government agency, was denying some children compensation because it said they had "consented" to abuse - even if they were of an age where they could not do so legally.

Siobhán Crawford, of London-based firm Bolt Burdon Kemp, one of the largest firms in the field, said the defence is normally used where a child turns 16 during the abuse.

She said the firm had dealt with ten such cases, and there had been an increase in the past two years as authorities became aware that it was an option.

For adults in a position of authority, it is illegal to have sex with a child under their care, even if the child is 16 or 17 at the time.

Anne Longfield, the Children’s Commissioner for England, said: “No child ever gives their ‘consent’ to being abused, and the increased use of this line of defence, although still quite rare, is worrying.

"I have contacted the Ministry of Justice previously and again recently about this issue and the Government should look urgently at what can be done to tackle it.”

The Sunday Telegraph has seen documents for two cases where the defence was employed.

One claimant was told by lawyers for the Catholic Archdiocese of Southwark that his abuse, which included rape and began when he was 15, "actually occurred in the context of a consensual relationship (albeit one the Claimant in retrospect now appears to regret)".

The victim, who cannot be named for legal reasons, told this newspaper that the use of the defence felt "insulting". "I was below the legal age of consent anyway and there's a grooming element to that kind of situation. It was totally disregarded and it made me feel really small," he said.

The case was eventually settled for £80,000.

In another case, a pupil was making a claim following sexual abuse by her teacher. The abuse began when she was under 16 and continued into adulthood.

The local authority, Cambridgeshire County Council, claimed in defence documents that it was not liable for abuse which took place after the age of 16.

It said: "On her own account the Claimant voluntarily sought out contact with [the teacher] and considered that she was in a relationship with him. If that is correct, after she had obtained the age of 16, the Claimant consented to sexual acts with [the teacher] and those acts ceased to be assaults."

The pupil eventually received £550,000 in compensation from the authority.

In a statement a spokesman for the Archdiocese of Southwark said that "out of respect for each claimant’s privacy and the confidentiality of the legal process, the Archdiocese does not comment on individual case", but added that it "supports the right of anyone who has suffered harm to seek compensation. Such claims are complex and often involve a number of difficult legal issues."

A Cambridgeshire County Council spokesman said the abuse was "deeply regrettable" and added: "We would like to say once again, how sorry we are to the woman involved in this case.

"We have already faced up to our responsibilities for this historic case and made a full compensation payment of £550,000 without putting the victim through the additional trauma of a court case.”

This message has been edited. Last edited by: wcb6092,


_________________________
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it."
Mark Twain
 
Posts: 12580 | Registered: January 17, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Too old to run,
too mean to quit!
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quote:
Originally posted by Dresden:
The Pope is not infallible, at least in this case. He's wrong on these worldly affairs.


Something I could never quite figure out . . . how putting a fancy dress on some guy makes him infallible.

And, AIR, it is the official doctrine of the Catholic church that the pope is infallible.


Elk

There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour)

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. "
-Thomas Jefferson

"America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville

FBHO!!!



The Idaho Elk Hunter
 
Posts: 25640 | Location: Virginia | Registered: December 16, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Elk Hunter:Something I could never quite figure out . . . how putting a fancy dress on some guy makes him infallible.

And, AIR, it is the official doctrine of the Catholic church that the pope is infallible.


I don't think Catholics believe the "fancy dress" is the source of Papal infallibility any more than a "fancy binding" is the source of inerrancy in Biblical translations. In each case, there is a belief of divine intercession guiding the humans involved. Whether one believes both or neither, the concepts are the same.
 
Posts: 8944 | Location: The Red part of Minnesota | Registered: October 06, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Papal infallibility

It only relates to doctrine concerning faith or morals. https://www.catholic.com/tract/papal-infallibility

quote:
fancy dress

A different subject:

Aunque la mona se vista de seda, mona se queda.(Spanish)
Even if a monkey wears silk, she is still a monkey

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.(English)

Eşeğe altın semer vursan da, eşek yine eşektir.(Turkish)
Even if you put a golden packsaddle on a donkey, the donkey is always a donkey

Cuir síoda ar ghabhar ach is gabhar i gcónaí é.(Irish)
Dress a goat in silk and he still remains a goat.

On ne fait pas d'un âne un cheval de course.(French)
One cannot make a race-horse from a donkey

L'abito non fa il monaco.(Italian)
The suit doesn't make a monk.

Aus einem Kieselstein kann man keinen Diamanten schleifen.(German)
You can't cut a diamond out of a pebble.

Al draagt een aap een gouden ring, het is en blijft een lelijk ding.(Dutch)
Even when a monkey wears a golden ring, it is and stays an ugly thing

However, if rabidly fanatical about this Pope, then it might refer to the doctrine of "impeccability". As in, "he's an impeccable dresser".


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Knowing more by accident than on purpose.
 
Posts: 14186 | Location: Tampa, Florida | Registered: December 12, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
10mm is The
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I miss our last Pope.




The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People again must learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. ~ Cicero 55 BC

The Dhimocrats love America like ticks love a hound.
 
Posts: 17459 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: November 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Beyond being a true communist, this Pope is no different than Benedict.


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Posts: 14186 | Location: Tampa, Florida | Registered: December 12, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
10mm is The
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quote:
Originally posted by jehzsa:
Beyond being a true communist, this Pope is no different than Benedict.

I respectfully disagree.




The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People again must learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. ~ Cicero 55 BC

The Dhimocrats love America like ticks love a hound.
 
Posts: 17459 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: November 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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They are all bureaucrats, Fenris.

Except perhaps Peter and JPI. And look where JPI ended at.


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Knowing more by accident than on purpose.
 
Posts: 14186 | Location: Tampa, Florida | Registered: December 12, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
10mm is The
Boom of Doom
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jehzsa:
They are all bureaucrats, Fenris.

Except perhaps Peter and JPI. And look where JPI ended at.

They all wear white robes too. But that doesn't mean there aren't differences.

I think you mean JP2. JP1 was only pope for 33 days.

Peter was a rocker.




The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People again must learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. ~ Cicero 55 BC

The Dhimocrats love America like ticks love a hound.
 
Posts: 17459 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: November 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
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The Pope has some serious thinking to do in light of the removal of statues, the reassignment of the sportscaster at UVa, and the questions being raised by USC's horse, Traveller.

He needs to think long and hard about the problem that Robert E. Lee's wife was named "Mary." There may have to be some changes, to avoid the inferences of racism and opression.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 48369 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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And people wonder why I left the Catholic Church.
 
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