SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump Login/Join 
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
posted
Townhall.com
Dennis Prager|Posted: May 30, 2017 12:01 AM


When people you know well, admire, and who share your values do something you strongly oppose, you have two options:

1) Cease admiring them or 2) try to understand them and change their minds.

In the case of my conservative friends who still snipe (or worse) at President Trump, I have rejected option one. The reason -- beside the fact that I simply like many of them -- is what I refer to as "moral bank accounts."

Every time we do good, we make a deposit into our moral bank account. And every time we do something bad, we make a withdrawal. These conservatives have made so many deposits into their moral bank accounts that, in my view, their accounts all remain firmly in the black.

That means my only choice is option two. But to try to change their minds, I must first try to understand their thinking.

I have concluded that there are a few reasons that explain conservatives who were Never-Trumpers during the election, and who remain anti-Trump today.

The first and, by far, the greatest reason is this: They do not believe that America is engaged in a civil war, with the survival of America as we know it at stake.

While they strongly differ with the left, they do not regard the left-right battle as an existential battle for preserving our nation. On the other hand, I, and other conservative Trump supporters, do.

That is why, after vigorously opposing Trump's candidacy during the Republican primaries, I vigorously supported him once he won the nomination. I believed then, as I do now, that America was doomed if a Democrat had been elected president. With the Supreme Court and hundreds of additional federal judgeships in the balance; with the Democrats' relentless push toward European-style socialism -- completely undoing the unique American value of limited government; the misuse of the government to suppress conservative speech; the continuing degradation of our universities and high schools; the weakening of the American military; and so much more, America, as envisioned by the Founders, would have been lost, perhaps irreversibly. The "fundamental transformation" that candidate Barack Obama promised in 2008 would have been completed by Hillary Clinton in 2016.

To my amazement, no anti-Trump conservative writer sees it that way. They all thought during the election, and still think, that while it would not have been a good thing if Hillary Clinton had won, it wouldn't have been a catastrophe either.

That's it, in a nutshell. Many conservatives, including me, believe that it would have been close to over for America as America if the Republican candidate, who happened to be a flawed man named Donald Trump, had not won. Moreover, I am certain that only Donald Trump would have defeated Hillary Clinton.

In other words, I believe that Donald Trump may have saved the country. And that, in my book, covers a lot of sins -- foolish tweets, included.

The Never-Trump conservative argument that Trump is not a conservative - one that I, too, made repeatedly during the Republican primaries - is not only no longer relevant, it is no longer true.

Had any Never-Trump conservative been told, say in the summer of 2015, that a Republican would win the 2016 election and, within his first few months in office, appoint a conservative to the Supreme Court; begin the process of replacing Obamacare; bomb Russia's ally, Assad, after he again used chemical weapons; appoint the most conservative cabinet in modern American history; begin undoing hysteria-based, economy-choking EPA regulations; label the Iranian regime "evil" in front of 50 Muslim heads of state; wear a yarmulke at the Western Wall; appoint a U.N. ambassador who regularly condemns the U.N. for its moral hypocrisy; restore the military budget; and work on lowering corporate tax rates, among other conservative achievements -- that Never-Trump conservative would have been jumping for joy.


So, why aren't anti-Trump conservatives jumping for joy?

I have come to believe that many conservatives possess what I once thought was a left-wing monopoly -- a utopian streak. Trump is too far from their ideal leader to be able to support him.

There is also a cultural divide. Anti-Trump conservatives are a very refined group of people. Trump doesn't talk like them. Moreover, the cultural milieu in which the vast majority of anti-Trump conservatives live and/or work means that to support Trump is to render oneself contemptible at all elite dinner parties.

In addition, anti-Trump conservatives see themselves as highly moral people (which they often are) who are duty-bound not to compromise themselves by strongly supporting Trump, whom they largely view as morally defective.

Finally, these people are only human: After investing so much energy in opposing Trump's election, and after predicting his nomination would lead to electoral disaster, it's hard to for them to admit they were wrong. To see him fulfill many of his conservative election promises, again in defiance of predictions, is a bitter pill. But if they hang on to their Never-Trumpism and the president falls on his face, they can say they were right all along.


That means that only if he fails can their reputations be redeemed. And they, of course, know that.

But there is another way.

They can join the fight. They can accept an imperfect reality and acknowledge that we are in a civil war, and that Trump, with all his flaws, is our general. If this general is going to win, he needs the best fighters. But too many of them, some of the best minds of the conservative movement, are AWOL.

I beg them: Please report for duty.

Link




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 48369 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
posted Hide Post
quote:
I have come to believe that many conservatives possess what I once thought was a left-wing monopoly -- a utopian streak. Trump is too far from their ideal leader to be able to support him.

There is also a cultural divide. Anti-Trump conservatives are a very refined group of people. Trump doesn't talk like them. Moreover, the cultural milieu in which the vast majority of anti-Trump conservatives live and/or work means that to support Trump is to render oneself contemptible at all elite dinner parties.

George Will?

quote:
That means that only if he fails can their reputations be redeemed. And they, of course, know that.

But there is another way.

They can join the fight. They can accept an imperfect reality and acknowledge that we are in a civil war, and that Trump, with all his flaws, is our general. If this general is going to win, he needs the best fighters. But too many of them, some of the best minds of the conservative movement, are AWOL.

I beg them: Please report for duty.

Some of them never will... , like George Will.
They simply have to be forgotten as we move on without them.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 24115 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Thank you
Very little
Picture of HRK
posted Hide Post
quote:
In addition, anti-Trump conservatives see themselves as highly moral people (which they often are) who are duty-bound not to compromise themselves by strongly supporting Trump, whom they largely view as morally defective.


How true this statement...
 
Posts: 23448 | Location: Florida | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His diet consists of black
coffee, and sarcasm.
Picture of egregore
posted Hide Post
Sometimes perfect is the enemy of good.

quote:
Trump is too far from their ideal leader to be able to support him.

Yeah, well, their "ideal leader" (whoever he was) wouldn't have won, a necessity for getting any kind of agenda implemented.
 
Posts: 27956 | Location: Johnson City, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Jalen,

Enjoyed reading your comments and this thread.

Look back to Obama. When he was running for president, he promised the world. He would fix everything. After, he shrugged his shoulders and said "I didn't make this mess"(as I recall).
Trump was elected, hiked his pants up, and said let's get to work.


P226 9mm CT
Springfield custom 1911 hardball
Glock 21
Les Baer Special Tactical AR-15
 
Posts: 1128 | Location: Vermont | Registered: March 24, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Shit don't
mean shit
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:

Finally, these people are only human: After investing so much energy in opposing Trump's election, and after predicting his nomination would lead to electoral disaster, it's hard to for them to admit they were wrong. To see him fulfill many of his conservative election promises, again in defiance of predictions, is a bitter pill. But if they hang on to their Never-Trumpism and the president falls on his face, they can say they were right all along.

This is my interpretation. I also had some reservations about what Trump would do once in office, but that has become a non-issue for me now. Except for maybe his tweets. But I also think he enjoys trolling/distracting his foes by using his tweets.
 
Posts: 5760 | Location: 7400 feet in Conifer CO | Registered: November 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Alienator
Picture of SIG4EVA
posted Hide Post
Because they aren't really conservatives...

It is blatantly obvious.


SIG556 Classic
P220 Carry SAS Gen 2 SAO
SP2022 9mm German Triple Serial
P938 SAS
P365 FDE

Psalm 118:24 "This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it"
 
Posts: 7071 | Location: NC | Registered: March 16, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
posted Hide Post
Keep in mind that Trump is not particularly ideological. Some of his ideas find favor with conservatives, others not so much.

Purists always have a hard time when they find themselves in power, because conservatives tend to not agree among themselves. Part of the problem is that our government has gone well beyond traditional, strict conservative ideals long ago. Coolidge was a conservative. Few since him have been. Even the sainted Ronald Reagan tended to talk conservative but act less so, particularly where spending and expansion of government was concerned.

One reason is that conservatives have never, in my lifetime, had effective control of the different parts of government. Right now, fewer than 60 votes in the Senate prevents free rein to enact and enforce a conservative agenda, and the courts have posed some obstacles as we have seen.

Trump can't just order the various branches of government to dance his tune. Our system is designed to prevent that level of power unless the people are really, really behind it. So far, that has been elusive. Ya gotta start somewhere, though.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 48369 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
posted Hide Post
quote:
Our system is designed to prevent that level of power unless the people are really, really behind it. So far, that has been elusive. Ya gotta start somewhere, though.

It's slow moving, more like a barge than a speed boat... it takes several miles to gradually change direction.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 24115 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Conveniently located directly
above the center of the Earth
Picture of signewt
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by chellim1:

It's slow moving, more like a barge than a speed boat... it takes several miles to gradually change direction.


....yes...and like that barge getting X-miles out to sea, eventually someone pulls the belly dump lever.....


**************~~~~~~~~~~
"I've been on this rock too long to bother with these liars any more."
~SIGforum advisor~
"When the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change, then change will come."~~sigmonkey

 
Posts: 9854 | Location: sunny Orygun | Registered: September 27, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Be Careful What You Wish For...
Picture of Monk
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SIG4EVA:
Because they aren't really conservatives...

It is blatantly obvious.


This.


____________________________________________________________

Georgeair: "...looking around my house this morning, it's not easily defended for long by two people in the event of real anarchy. The entryways might be slick for the latecomers though...."
 
Posts: 11865 | Location: Hoisting the colors in a strange land | Registered: February 09, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Glorious SPAM!
Picture of mbinky
posted Hide Post
quote:
Trump is too far from their ideal leader to be able to support him.


Correct. Their ideal leader was Hillary. Why? Countless possibilities for fundraising, i.e. "Vote for me so we can stop her!" and also with Hillary in office they wouldn't have to actually work for another four years.

No, Trump was nothing like their ideal leader. Their ideal leader would have served them instead of serving the people.
 
Posts: 10635 | Registered: June 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Political Cynic
Picture of nhtagmember
posted Hide Post
an anti-Trump conservative is just another hyphenated word for liberal democrat



[B] Against ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC


 
Posts: 53179 | Location: Tucson Arizona | Registered: January 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oh stewardess,
I speak jive.
Picture of 46and2
posted Hide Post
quote:
Many conservatives, including me, believe that it would have been close to over for America as America if the Republican candidate, who happened to be a flawed man named Donald Trump, had not won. Moreover, I am certain that only Donald Trump would have defeated Hillary Clinton.

In other words, I believe that Donald Trump may have saved the country. And that, in my book, covers a lot of sins -- foolish tweets, included.

In my experiences, this is the most common theme - a large disagreement regarding the threat we faced if Hillary were to have won, and the notion that Trump was the only one who could have beat her.

Above all - I was a Never-Hillary voter, and was/am certain Trump was our only shot.

Many disagree.

In the end, I don't much care about the President's Tweets, or his choice in VP which I would never, ever, otherwise support, or various other aspects of this Administration, because in the end - it's not Hillary and her ilk, and that is a YUGE win in and of itself.
 
Posts: 25613 | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get Off My Lawn
Picture of oddball
posted Hide Post
I have Republican friends who voted for Gary Johnson because for various stupid reasons, couldn't stand to vote for Trump. They couldn't stand his speeches. They couldn't fathom that the guy was intelligent, he has no "experience", etc. etc. etc. They think Trump is a "jackass", and tend to believe the bullshit news. They also are hard-core Bush supporters, hell they actually still think Marco or Jeb could have beaten Hillary. But it is true, these friends didn't see a Hillary presidency as the end of the country or a catastrophe waiting to happen, they actually thought it would be an opportunity for Mittens or Jeb to come back in 2020.

I still love them as friends, but consider their politics as extremely naive and frankly, just plain idiotic. Pretty much equal to my liberal family members and friends.



"I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965
 
Posts: 16694 | Location: Texas | Registered: May 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
posted Hide Post
quote:
these friends didn't see a Hillary presidency as the end of the country or a catastrophe waiting to happen, they actually thought it would be an opportunity for Mittens or Jeb to come back in 2020.

I still love them as friends, but consider their politics as extremely naive and frankly, just plain idiotic. Pretty much equal to my liberal family members and friends.

I don't know if this describes your friends... but Mittens and Jeb aren't conservatives. They actually kind of look down on conservatives. They are members of the club. The Uniparty. The elite. We are not members of the insiders club.

Of course, they want our votes, but after that they have little use for conservatives.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 24115 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump

© SIGforum 2024