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Be not wise in
thine own eyes
Picture of kimber1911
posted
If your a Sheriff or Police officer, the time may be coming for you to make a decision to stand up for the Constitution or full-fill a State Dictators orders.

Not a good place to be, but during these times decisions must be made.
I pray that y’all stand for the Liberty and Freedom granted by the grace of God though our Founding Fathers.




"This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.”
Donald Trump (POTUS) Jan. 20th 2017

"ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!" King Leonidas of Sparta
 
Posts: 3813 | Location: Charlotte Area | Registered: December 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Quit staring at my wife's Butt
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AWESOME!!
 
Posts: 5299 | Registered: February 09, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Damn it, it's about time small businesses stood up to this lock down shit.


*********
"Just think what Goebbels could have done with Facebook."
 
Posts: 7509 | Location: Arizona | Registered: August 17, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Not just LE or small business owners. If 70,000,000+ people told their liberal mayors and governors to pound sand, in unison, their voices would be heard across the country.
 
Posts: 10803 | Location: Somewhere north of a hot humid hell in the summer. | Registered: January 09, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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I must finally ask because I keep reading that word: What is unconstitutional about a lockdown that is ultimately ordered for public health reasons? And in this case, which constitution? The US Constitution or New York’s?

I just did a little research myself and quickly found the below article on the Cato Institute site. It references many precedents giving the “government” the authority to order public health measures. I’m asking, therefore, are such orders unconstitutional because we believe they should be or does the claim have a legal basis? If the latter, does anyone have any links to what we’re talking about? Something like “freedom of assembly” won’t really do it from a legal standpoint because virtually every freedom guaranteed by the Constitution is subject to certain legislative and case law limitations.

https://www.cato.org/publicati...rders-constitutional




“The most common reaction to a life-or-death situation is to do nothing.”
— Amanda Ripley, The Unthinkable: who survives when disaster strikes and why (New York: Three Rivers Press, 2008)
 
Posts: 42924 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
I must finally ask because I keep reading that word: What is unconstitutional about a lockdown that is ultimately ordered for public health reasons? And in this case, which constitution? The US Constitution or New York’s?

I just did a little research myself and quickly found the below article on the Cato Institute site. It references many precedents giving the “government” the authority to order public health measures. I’m asking, therefore, are such orders unconstitutional because we believe they should be or does the claim have a legal basis? If the latter, does anyone have any links to what we’re talking about?

https://www.cato.org/publicati...rders-constitutional
I'm not going to chase this very far down the rabbit hole, but the first amendment both recognizes and guarantees the right to practice your religion in the way you choose. So to me personally, any actions taken by government to impede or restrain that god given right is unconstitutional. I know that's not specifically the same as the situation here, but New York is shitting all over religious people with no regard for the first amendment as well and I wish they would send the cops and the health officials packing just like these folks did here.


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Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 30891 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Where I'm struggling mightily with this is that I've always supported the police. Hell, I have lots of friends locally that are cops. But this sort of BS is testing my limits. The cops know this BS is wrong, yet they're going along with it to protect a paycheck. They're really putting themselves in a bad place given the Left hates and wants rid of them, and now they've opted to piss on the people who up until now have had their backs at every turn. At some point, if this BS doesn't stop, the police will have no supporters at all.


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Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 30891 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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health reasons have pretty good standing in the constitutional history both state and federal. But in the end they require the courts to apply some standard of review and I really have a hard time at that point. First as a comparative matter if some form of gathering is OK then a religious form to the same rules should absolutely be fine. That has not been the situation in several states. Second if you apply a strict level of review and use actual data on deaths, communicability etc. you really, really have to conclude they have gone too far.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 9147 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Be not wise in
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Picture of kimber1911
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
I must finally ask because I keep reading that word: What is unconstitutional about a lockdown that is ultimately ordered for public health reasons? And in this case, which constitution? The US Constitution or New York’s?

I am not a lawyer but Associate Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito addressed some of these issues 12 Nov. 2020

Video and speaking begin at 13:45 in this video.



Justice Samuel Alito Highlights the Legal Issues Raised by 'Previously Unimaginable' COVID-19 Restrictions



"This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.”
Donald Trump (POTUS) Jan. 20th 2017

"ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!" King Leonidas of Sparta
 
Posts: 3813 | Location: Charlotte Area | Registered: December 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
I'm not going to chase this very far down the rabbit hole, but the first amendment both recognizes and guarantees the right to practice your religion in the way you choose.


Well, I won’t either, but despite the First Amendment’s protecting the free exercise of religion, it does not give us the right to practice it any way we please. The most obvious cases have involved the use of illegal drugs that people have asserted were necessary to the proper practice of their religions, and while some of those claims have resulted in legal exceptions being made, not all have. And although I don’t know that anyone has actually tried to argue that his gods demand the monthly sacrifice of two-day-old puppies or kittens by dropping them alive in boiling oil, if someone did, I’d bet the rent that the First notwithstanding, he would not be successful in avoiding an animal cruelty conviction—assuming he wasn’t lynched first.

I am not arguing in favor of all the lockdowns and other pandemic related restrictions that have been imposed on us all, but I will still ask what the basis is for claiming that they are in violation of any constitution, or at least how they are so obviously in violation that the officers we hire to enforce our laws should recognize the fact and refuse their orders.




“The most common reaction to a life-or-death situation is to do nothing.”
— Amanda Ripley, The Unthinkable: who survives when disaster strikes and why (New York: Three Rivers Press, 2008)
 
Posts: 42924 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
Well, I won’t either, but despite the First Amendment’s protecting the free exercise of religion, it does not give us the right to practice it any way we please. The most obvious cases have involved the use of illegal drugs that people have asserted were necessary to the proper practice of their religions, and while some of those claims have resulted in legal exceptions being made, not all and. And although I don’t know that anyone has actually tried to argue that his gods demand the monthly sacrifice of two-day-old puppies or kittens by dropping them alive in boiling oil, if someone did, I’d bet the rent that the First notwithstanding, he would not be successful in avoiding an animal cruelty conviction—assuming he wasn’t lynched first.
I'll only take one more pitch at this. Your illegal drug example is a bit different than locking and entire congregation out of their church and prohibiting them from worshipping in its entirety. I get your point, but this horse shit is getting so out of control that even California LE's are refusing to enforce Governor Gav's almighty decrees. Where we're headed is a place where 'no one' gives a damn about compliance with the law any longer. Obviously the Antifa/BLM garbage has already thrown away the Constitution and law, and if people like these liberal governors and mayors keep pushing the rest of the people, those folks are likely to start ignoring the law too. That's what we see in the video above. When that happens on a grand scale all hell is going to break lose.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 30891 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
Where I'm struggling mightily with this is that I've always supported the police. Hell, I have lots of friends locally that are cops. But this sort of BS is testing my limits. The cops know this BS is wrong, yet they're going along with it to protect a paycheck. They're really putting themselves in a bad place given the Left hates and wants rid of them, and now they've opted to piss on the people who up until now have had their backs at every turn. At some point, if this BS doesn't stop, the police will have no supporters at all.



You’d be surprised on how many officers think that this is ALL BULLSHIT, and simply drive by a call, waive, and keep on rolling.

Shut down a party, be it outside or inside? Fuck that...
Shut down a business because there’s “too many people inside” and “no social distancing”? Fuck that too...
Shut down a soccer/football/baseball game because a bunch of kids are having fun without masks? Oh yeah, fuck that as well...

I probably get about 2-3 calls a night now for that nonsense. 99% of the time, my officers and I don’t even go, and just code the job out over the radio “Other miscellaneous/ Disturbance - No police service necessary”.

I’m in a great spot where my bosses at the district level, myself, other Sgts, and my officers aren’t going to impede on someones right to make money, have a peaceful gathering, or party like it’s 1999.
Keep the noise down, don’t piss off the neighbors- that’s all I ask.

So far, at least here, none of these violations have held up in court. In a city and state that’s quickly going broke, the lawsuits for violating 1st Amendment rights are going to fiscally cripple this shithole even further.

But that’s the Police side of the house. And granted, there’s some that don’t feel the same, or are “just following orders”.

Here’s a little clip from our bug-eyed midget that should scare you-

https://twitter.com/stillgray/.../1328975282544381960


So they figured out that Law Enforcement isn’t making people “comply”, so empower a different agency- the health department.

I just hope WHEN the lawsuits hit, they don’t skip the “Punitive” part on the individuals that gave the order and wrote the tickets!


_____________________________________________________________________

"When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!"

“What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy
 
Posts: 6370 | Location: Attempting to keep the noise down around Midway Airport | Registered: February 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I thought the social workers would be sent. One call gets it all. A lot of sociology degrees out there, send ‘em out.
 
Posts: 4079 | Location: west 'by god' virginia | Registered: May 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
I must finally ask because I keep reading that word: What is unconstitutional about a lockdown that is ultimately ordered for public health reasons? And in this case, which constitution? The US Constitution or New York’s?

I just did a little research myself and quickly found the below article on the Cato Institute site. It references many precedents giving the “government” the authority to order public health measures. I’m asking, therefore, are such orders unconstitutional because we believe they should be or does the claim have a legal basis? If the latter, does anyone have any links to what we’re talking about? Something like “freedom of assembly” won’t really do it from a legal standpoint because virtually every freedom guaranteed by the Constitution is subject to certain legislative and case law limitations.

https://www.cato.org/publicati...rders-constitutional


Is perhaps the debate on what the criteria is to justify a public health measure. And the confirmation of real data and science, not manufactured data and speculation?




"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - B.Franklin
"Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy
 
Posts: 8722 | Location: In the gilded cage | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bolt Thrower
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That cross section arrested one of our members for going to a gym, but stand down at blm riots. I suspect it’s highly dependent on location, but I doubt city cops are on our side.
 
Posts: 8900 | Location: Woodinville, WA | Registered: March 30, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The main take-away for me is:

A pandemic DOES NOT supersede the Constitution.

I believe someone in the crowd shouted that out to these enforcers.

We are observing in real time the globalists seizing power in what THEY are calling the opportunity for a GLOBAL RESET.

Fight them in the hills, in the streets, in every conceivable arena and remember, if the U.S. fails, there is nowhere else to turn to.

This is it, and for all the marbles.
 
Posts: 2556 | Registered: May 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Only a matter of time when this scenario will be necessary......


"No matter where you go - there you are"
 
Posts: 3917 | Location: Eastern PA-Berks/Lehigh Valley | Registered: January 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Be not wise in
thine own eyes
Picture of kimber1911
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Regarding the Constitution, I believe these sections could be applied to the COVID restrictions.

The biggest offenses are the restrictions on religious services and equal protection under the law for businesses.
The government is picking and choosing which businesses can survive.

Again please listen to Associate Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito.

I can see this leading to shots being fired if Police and Sheriff’s participate in shutting down business which have been the lives work of the business owner.

You can try and make your argument all day that it’s Constitutional to shutdown businesses and remove the ability of people to provide for their family, but at some point the fuse will be lit, people will be hurt and arguments will not matter.

Snippets from the Constitution:

1st Amendment
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

4th Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,

5th Amendment
nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

9th Amendment
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

14th Amendment
Section 1
equal protection of the laws.



"This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.”
Donald Trump (POTUS) Jan. 20th 2017

"ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!" King Leonidas of Sparta
 
Posts: 3813 | Location: Charlotte Area | Registered: December 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
That cross section arrested one of our members for going to a gym, but stand down at blm riots. I suspect it’s highly dependent on location, but I doubt city cops are on our side.


Did you just not read CPD Sig’s post? C=Chicago. That is a city. A big city. So yes, there are city cops that don’t believe in this crap either. Great job painting all city LEO’s with that big anti-constitution paint brush Hero!!!
 
Posts: 3215 | Registered: January 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
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It's only going to get worse folks unless we stand up for our rights.
 
Posts: 18494 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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