The academic world has definitely changed since I went to college. I had graduated in 1955 from the high school in Detroit with the best academic rating with grades good enough to earn a GM scholarship at Wayne State University (a "streetcar college" back then). I lived at home with parents paying for my food and supplemented their contribution with part-time and summer jobs. I didn't really know what I wanted to do when I began college, but decided to take courses in Chemical Engineering because that curriculum included the courses I wanted to take. It turns out that was a good choice, because it was an excellent general-purpose technical education. I also enrolled in AFROTC and did 4 years of it, becoming commissioned a 2LT in USAF upon graduation. I was sent initially to a little radar site on an Oregon mountaintop to be in charge of radar maintenance--I could barely spell RADAR. However, my college work had prepared me to be able to absorb the information I needed to do the job. I was given several assignments in the electronics maintenance field and did OK in them, including a stint in charge of the SAGE computer at a Direction Center. USAF decided to send me to USC (California, not SC) for a MSIE degree, and I was a good student there, too. My last assignments were as a COBOL computer programmer and when I retired in 1980 I found employment at TI doing the same. I spent 26 years there programming in that "dead" language (and most of my code is still running!). From a practical standpoint, I never worked in either field I had a degree in, and I never made a pile of money, but I was gainfully employed at work I enjoyed and believe my education background was helpful in my jobs. I now have a military pension, Social Security, and took my retirement from TI as a lump sum and invested it. I have more money than I need and a good life. By the path of my education I did not have any lingering debt (tuition at WSU was maxed at $189/semester and books ran about $100-150/semester); USAF paid my tuition, fees, and living expenses at USC.

I agree that college is not for everyone. I think many people would be well advised to join the workforce or military for a while until they have a better idea what they want to do with their life, then either pursue a degree or develop technical skills. Whatever they do should avoid excessive debt and they should lay away some money in savings for the future. Too many don't think far enough ahead about when they will get old.

flashguy

In summary flash, you were successful the old fashioned way (the way that I believe built America).

Look at numbers from my local college, which is Northern Michigan University:
Enrollment: About 7500.
Campus size: 360 Acres.
In state tuition: $10,200 per year.
Out of state: $15,700 per year.
Room and board: $10,300 per year.
So... if you are an out of state student wanting a 4 year degree, you need around $105,000 to start to get it done.
Which explains how NMU can pay its new hockey coach $265K a year with an 8 year contract.
To me its not that your degree may have less value than in the past, its that its cost is so high.
And its my understanding that NMU is considered a good value, cost wise, for a degree. So if my kid was college age now and wanted to get a degree in underwater basket weaving, I would head him off to a Community College and a job!

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by YellowJacket:...He scored 1270 on his SAT (math/verbal). Is that low to you?...

Reportedly, it wasn't high enough to get into any UC schools where he applied.

As I commented earlier, my son got close to a 4.0 GPA in high school. IIRC he got all A's, but a B in his "leadership" class. He was a class officer, but was an Eagle Scout and used leadership principles he learned in BSA, which offended the teacher, who punished him on his report card. He got into a good 4 year college, mentioned that HS did nothing to prepare him to think/perform on a college level.

In contrast, I know those in my hard nosed high school who took the CLEP exam and in one day got full college credit for 48 hours, all of the general ed classes, started college as sophomores.

My point is that just because he did not get into a certain school does not mean he scored low on the SAT. 1270 is more than respectable and much higher than the average HS student. However, there are plenty of schools that it will not get him into.

I have no love lost for this kid, just wanted to clarify a bit. And I agree that GPA's are over-inflated in HS these days due to a number of things.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Look at numbers from my local college, which is Northern Michigan University:
Enrollment: About 7500.
Campus size: 360 Acres.
In state tuition: $10,200 per year.
Out of state: $15,700 per year.
Room and board: $10,300 per year.
So... if you are an out of state student wanting a 4 year degree, you need around $105,000 to start to get it done.
Which explains how NMU can pay its new hockey coach $265K a year with an 8 year contract.
To me its not that your degree may have less value than in the past, its that its cost is so high.
And its my understanding that NMU is considered a good value, cost wise, for a degree. So if my kid was college age now and wanted to get a degree in underwater basket weaving, I would head him off to a Community College and a job!

At most universities, athletics salaries come directly out of the athletic association and don't have anything to do with general operating funds (tuition, et. al.). AA's, many times, are the only departments who actually run in the black at public universities.

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:
Maybe a slight drift, reading your comment made me think of the Hogg fellow re the recent shooting. He had something like a 4.0+ gpa, but scored low on the SAT, did not get accepted into any of the UC colleges. That would seem to fit. His HS education was filled with warm fuzzies, but not much brain conditioning.

I've also thought that David Hogg may have been one of those who bullied Nikolas Cruz to the point he went off the deep end. His behavior has been that of a bully every time I've had the displeasure of seeing/hearing him.

Okay, but this is a local state college. A lot of the students will be from the local area. So I they're paying in-state tuition, and may be able to live with their parents. So, with other expenses, they can do it for around $50K. That isn't too bad.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Look at numbers from my local college, which is Northern Michigan University:
Enrollment: About 7500.
Campus size: 360 Acres.
In state tuition: $10,200 per year.
Out of state: $15,700 per year.
Room and board: $10,300 per year.
So... if you are an out of state student wanting a 4 year degree, you need around $105,000 to start to get it done.
Which explains how NMU can pay its new hockey coach $265K a year with an 8 year contract.
To me its not that your degree may have less value than in the past, its that its cost is so high.
And its my understanding that NMU is considered a good value, cost wise, for a degree. So if my kid was college age now and wanted to get a degree in underwater basket weaving, I would head him off to a Community College and a job!

Yea, education, be it 4 year colleges, graduate, post-graduate, 2 year jr. colleges and even trade schools, the tuitions charged are out of control.

College was not cheap back when I went (early 80's, jr. + 4 year college), but affordable and if you worked full-time, you could escape with no debt, which I did.

My degree was nothing more than a key to open a door. It was my 6 years of work experience that got me the job, once the degree opened the door, that led to my career path - until it was H1B'd to a land whose professional IT labour costs I can't compete with.


Unless you're going to be a lawyer, scientist, engineer, college is a near waste of time. Go to a good trade school, or just get a 2 year degree.

The one down side in not having that piece of paper, when you do get a professional job, like HR puke, Programmer and so on, is that those who have the piece of paper and do the hiring, will actively discriminated against those who are qualified to do the job, but do not have that piece of paper. I've seen it happen quite a bit.

I learned more on the job and on my own by reading, than in school.

Personally, these outrageous college costs are just part of the plan to keep people enslaved. Debt (and it can be forced upon you, perhaps willing, although one can argue that it is often accepted with great reluctance of the one assuming the debt) is a sort of slavery.

Since I became completely debt free 4 years ago, I see things very differently an can live on a lot less if need be. I could work at home depot and live. A 4 year college graduate not able to find a job in their field, with 60K+ in debt cannot.

I "CLEPPED" a full year of college while serving on active duty military. (free for service members)

All I did was buy a few books and brush up - and I essentially learned and regurgitated in a few hours what a student spends a full semester and tens of thousands of dollars for.

HR puke, that was funny.

Albeit the professions by necessity require higher education, and the more the better. But for people who just want an education for the sake of it, I think it's worth it, adjusted by the economics of the whole mess of course. Depending on the courses taken, particularly in stem subjects, micro economics, statistics, operations research, and other quantitative or technical subjects, it can open your eyes to all kinds of illogical thinking and chicanery that one might not otherwise more easily detect in daily life without those kinds of tools to work with.

There sure are a lot of BS "degrees" out there these days. When I went to college the "worst" degree you could get, so to speak, was in english or literature. There were no degrees in tampon studies back then.