quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
From the NYT (yeah... dripping with condescension for those of us who are 'skeptics'):

Vaccine Skepticism Was Viewed as a Knowledge Problem. It’s Actually About Gut Beliefs.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/0...pticism-beliefs.html

That's an awful lot of words to communicate what should be plainly obvious to ANY thinking human....With all the Incompetence and 'Agenda Driven Lies' coming from all the so called 'experts', combined with the ridiculous restrictions imposed by all the Self-Appointed Masters hell bent on taking away our rights and individual liberties, many are just a little hesitant to go along willingly, just because the say so!

Put another way, We Don't Trust Anything, NOT a Single FUCKING Thing they're Peddling!

As for me and my family, we already had COVID, and recovered w/o incident, so NO vaccine needed....Period!

quote:

From the NY Times article:

Manufacturers of the three vaccines approved for emergency use by the Food and Drug Administration say they are safe.

Of course the say that. Would you expect the vendors to say, "No! Don't take our vaccine. It's not safe?"

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
Dr. Omer and a team of scientists found that skeptics were much more likely than nonskeptics to have a highly developed sensitivity for liberty — the rights of individuals — and to have less deference to those in positions of power.

IOW: They're not sheep.

And those in power are not happy about it, at all.

I got the J&J last week and only had symptoms one day. Glad I went with that one.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
IOW: They're not sheep.

And those in power are not happy about it, at all.

I've seen it posited on this forum several times that this vaccine stuff is purely compliance testing. I'm inclined to agree with that.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
From the NYT (yeah... dripping with condescension for those of us who are 'skeptics'):

... and a sharp rise in inequality that has led to a sense, among many Americans, that the government is no longer working on their behalf.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/0...pticism-beliefs.html

And woke too

Another way of reading that article is to conclude that those who are jumping at the vax
DO NOT value liberty and DO NOT give shit about the purity of their mind and body.

Well damn if you put it in those terms, I'm going with Liberty+Purity over Slavery+Drug/Alcohol Abuse/Mental Illness.

I don't believe it's really that simple for everyone -- but if those are my choices, I know where I stand.

quote:

Originally posted by Yanert98:
Another way of reading that article is to conclude that those who are jumping at the vax
DO NOT value liberty and DO NOT give shit about the purity of their mind and body.

Well damn if you put it in those terms, I'm going with Liberty+Purity over Slavery+Drug/Alcohol Abuse/Mental Illness.

I don't believe it's really that simple for everyone -- but if those are my choices, I know where I stand.

People on both extremes of this like making it one or the other.

My late-70s parents and step parents, and dozens of people I'm close to, have been vaccinated for weeks now.

One of them felt Flu-ish for a day. One of them.

I'm not the least bit anti-vax, but I am anti Beta-Tester/Lab-Rat so I'm just being patient for now.

Happy to be amongst the last, but I've virtually zero doubts that I'll get it at some point and all will be ok.

2nd shot of Pfizer yesterday. Same as first shot, mildly sore arm at the injection, same as most any vaccine in the past or a flu shot. Just like my first shot I lifted weights at the gym same night to no ill effect. 24 hours later that's it. Anecdotal but I drink a lot of water everyday, with electrolytes, and eat extremely healthy and exercise daily.

Happy I'm done with it. Feel much better on the other side. My closest family member died of C19 and was on a ventilator for 2 weeks prior. If only this was available a few months prior I'd still have her in my life. RIP ma-ma! Love you always!

The COVID-19 Test No One Is Talking About: Make Sure Your Children Have It Before They Are Vaccinated
By Stacey Lennox May 17, 2021

We are already seeing colleges and universities requiring the COVID-19 vaccine for students to attend classes in the fall. The vaccine is being tested for children under 16, and there may be school districts that attempt to require it in the fall. All of this pressure to vaccinate the young, given their relative resilience to severe disease and near-zero fatality rate from COVID-19, is unprecedented. The health bureaucracy is not nearly as insistent about the flu vaccine, even though it often makes children much sicker and often carries higher fatality rates in children.
To encourage you to vaccinate your children, the experts from the CDC and NIH were on television this weekend recommending that children remain masked until vaccines are approved for their age cohort and they receive them. This advice is just bizarre given what the science says about children passing the virus to adults. It is so well known that Switzerland told its citizens last April that children under ten could resume regular contact with their grandparents. The health experts also know that immunity in exposed and recovered patients is robust. There was also preexisting immunity in some portion of the population based on exposure to other coronaviruses. Yet, the CDC and NIH have not clearly conveyed this to Americans.
Senator Ron Johnson went on Tucker Carlson Tonight and shared that his doctor recommended he not receive the vaccine at this point because he has successfully recovered from the virus. This medical advice is entirely reasonable based on the current science and is the purpose of the doctor-patient relationship. Johnson also stated that he was concerned about the push to vaccinate children without full FDA approval. The vaccines are still given under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) because of incomplete safety data for their use at any age.
The lack of understanding of recovered immunity is so poor that MSNBC anchor Brian Williams accused Johnson of doing the bidding of Vladimir Putin. Williams went on to say that Johnson’s statement was exactly what a Russian asset would say. On CNN, Health and Human Services Secretary Xavier Becerra appeared to agree with a host when asked if there should be laws keeping unvaccinated people out of buildings. According to the CDC data on COVID-19 effectiveness, this rhetoric is next-level insanity.
According to CDC data, through May 10, 2021, the rate of hospitalization after being vaccinated was 0.000690%. The chances of COVID-19 being fatal was 0.000157%, or, effectively, one in a million. A person’s lifetime risk of dying in a car accident, crossing the street, or falling from a height is all well under one in 1,000. So, why are we being told to mask children and behaving as if unvaccinated people without symptoms pose an outsized risk to the vaccinated?
All of this becomes even more astounding when you learn that the FDA has given a EUA to a test that identifies preexisting T-cell immunity. This test goes beyond simply testing for antibodies from a recent infection. Instead, it tests for T cells, which are like sentinels. When they detect cells infected with a virus they recognize, they kill them and trigger antibody production. Destroying infected cells stops virus replication inside them and calls in the other immune cells to find and inactivate any viruses circulating in the bloodstream.
The FDA approved a test called T-Detect on March 5. According to the press release:

Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued an emergency use authorization (EUA) for the T-Detect COVID Test developed by Adaptive Biotechnologies. The T-Detect COVID Test is a next generation sequencing based (NGS) test to aid in identifying individuals with an adaptive T cell immune response to SARS-CoV-2, indicating recent or prior infection with SARS-CoV-2.

According to the developer’s website, T-Detect identified 97% of past PCR-confirmed COVID-19 infections, while antibody tests only picked up 77% approximately two months after the illness. The chief scientific officer for adaptive technologies, Harlan Robbins, also noted:

As infection rates continue to soar, T-cell testing can help us understand the true prevalence of COVID-19 in our communities as well as the degree to which our population is protected from future infection. At the individual level, the availability of a T-cell based clinical test could be useful for people who suspect they may have had COVID-19, but were either unable to get tested or had a negative PCR test at the time of their illness, and who want to know for sure whether they had the disease.

Oddly, I can find only one local news story and one each on Bloomberg and Yahoo News covering the availability of this test. Where is the head of the FDA encouraging people to get tested for this immunity before getting vaccinated? Why are the government and insurance companies covering the vaccine and the COVID-19 test but not the test for durable immunity to the virus?
Once it was discovered that there was the possibility of preexisting immunity, just as they found with H1N1, this type of test should have been a public health priority to assess the real vulnerability in the population. It wasn’t, and a legitimate question is why. It would have provided much richer and more accurate data about the actual risk to the population for severe disease and refined any mitigation steps. Knowing this information could have reduced the damage to the economy, our children’s education, and the effects of isolation that we will be dealing with for years to come.
Before vaccinating children or young adults, parents should strongly consider testing them for a T-cell reaction first. This population rarely suffered a severe illness, but it’s possible they were exposed and had an immune response. Parents should also demand that schools and colleges accept evidence of an immune response in place of proof of vaccination.
One of my children reacted to the diphtheria pertussis and tetanus (DPT) vaccine and received just the DT portion for the rest of the immunization schedule. Then this child had pertussis, also known as whooping cough, as a toddler. A titer test, similar to T-Detect, was always sufficient proof of immunity for schools and colleges. It is unclear why COVID-19 should be any different now that this test is available and operating under the same authorization from the FDA that the vaccines are.

https://pjmedia.com/columns/st...-vaccinated-n1447392

I waited a while for this thread to cool down before I waded in. Doesn't appear to be happening so in I come.

I chose the J&J vaccine for SWMBO and myself. It is made along the lines of a traditional vaccine in that it is an adenovirus that has been altered: 1. To be nonreplicating - meaning that it will reproduce in a very limited manner in the body. and 2. To express the antigens of SARS-Cov-2 that attached to the ACE receptor on the target cells. Now, in plain language, it is a vaccine made in a manner very close to traditional vaccines used for everything from MMR, Influenza, etc. No mRNA, no non-human virus.

We got ours in mid March and had no reaction at all. I can accept the fact that preliminary testing shows that this vaccine generated less immunity to the virus and that's because I have concerns about the long term potential effects of the mRNA based vaccines. I hope I am proven wrong, but better safe than sorry.

As for the article Chellim1 posted, I agree that people who have had COVID-19 and recovered SHOULD NOT be vaccinated as they run the risk of a large anamnestic response to the vaccine and may have a poor outcome. Some might experience anaphylaxis which ain't a cake walk and is potentially fatal. The test for CD4 T-Cells (also called "killer" T-Cells) sensitized to SARS-Cov-2, if as good as advertised, should be THE FINAL WORD for established immunity against this virus.

I had a friend who was advised by his physician AFTER recovering from COVID to get vaccinated. Fortunately he is fine, but I fear others might not be so lucky.

So get your kids tested BEFORE submitting them to vaccination. You might have to fight with you school board's health advisors, but it might be a fight worth winning.

Good Luck.

RMD

Well said and reasoned, RMD.

I second that - great post Mr. Lower Alabama.

I am convinced I had Covid in mid-December 2019 even before it was official and it was awful. Took a good 6 weeks to feel fully recovered, I got an antibody test in May 2020 and it came back negative but I don’t trust the tests that early on to be honest.

I’ve also heard from numerous people and sources to NOT get the vaccine if you’ve recovered from Covid already, which is one of the reasons I’m reluctant among other reasons as many have stated here.

Should I try another antibody test or has it been too long now?

^^^You want to get the 'T-Detect' T-Cell test referenced in chellim1's post above (four posts above yours).

quote:

According to the developer’s website, T-Detect identified 97% of past PCR-confirmed COVID-19 infections, while antibody tests only picked up 77% approximately two months after the illness.

The COVID-19 Test No One Is Talking About: Make Sure Your Children Have It Before They Are Vaccinated

https://pjmedia.com/columns/st...-vaccinated-n1447392

Great info all ‘round. Me, I had the Pfizer late March, 2nd 1st week of April. I’m 73 and rather than have the wife nag,nag,nag, just get the shot go on. No side effects. We ain’t gettin’ out alive anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:

^^^You want to get the 'T-Detect' T-Cell test referenced in chellim1's post above

I'm going to get that test for sure. $150 out of pocket to finally know just what the hell that was that hit me in late 2019 is worth it. Very interesting to note that the site claims that they were finding T-cells in people who had recovered from SARS...17 years later (SARS ended in 2004).

I signed up to get this blood test, will be very interesting if it does pick up Covid T-cells from December 2019 - January 2020 when I had this AWFUL thing with a really bad sore throat and horrible cough and pneumonia that hit me out of nowhere and I'm now convinced was Covid even before it was official.

They think it was in the US circulating around as early as October 2019 now:

T-Detect

My wife and I decided to go ahead and get the Moderna vaccine offered by our insurance provider due to pressure from family members, that and we are in our mid 70's so it seemed prudent to do so.
The nurse that administered the shots was a pro. Neither of us felt it and no sore arm. A total nothing burger.
Well, that changed for me last night around 1am when I woke up to strong chills and about 4 hours later hot flashes kicked in. My wife had no reaction at all. It's about 9:15 now and I'm feeling close to normal.

Not looking forward to the second shot at all!

Jim