Maybe things changed before weed became legal but it’s a curious coincidence.

Wife and I spent a week in Vegas last month. Last time we went was in 2004. The difference was night and day. The only change to my knowledge is that recreational marijuana is legal now. Last time the Strip was spotless clean. No trash, bums, nothing and it was still nice within a couple blocks of the strip. This time all I could smell was weed and there were bums and drunks laying around everywhere. The place looks dirty and I didn’t much enjoy being there this time.

Unrelated to the weed issue, last time you’d only get hassled by people selling timeshares a couple times from one end of the strip to the other. This time the obnoxious jerks were jumping at you every 50 feet. I’ve got a well developed angry face and nothing kept these people away from us. I felt like I was there with a 3 year old because I kept yelling “NO” all the time. One greasy guido wouldn’t go away and stepped in front of my wife. I got between them and told the guy to fuck off immediately. We won’t be going back.

I predicted, along with many others, that legalization for recreation was a HUGE error and would create a myriad of problems with few benefits. But don’t worry, someone will be along shortly to defend it, even if obliquely.

I think you made a huge leap between legal weed and what you observed. Your last visit was 14 years ago. I don't think weed is the only change.

The population of the Las Vegas area is up. The number of visitors is up from 37 million annually to 42 million over that period of time.

It is really easy to confuse correlation with causation. Weed may contribute, and it may not. Your data is too thin to allow any conclusion to be drawn.

I go to Vegas at least once a year and stay as far away from the Strip as I can, which makes it tolerable.

I highly doubt those changes are due to legal weed.

Even in states where it's not legal recreationally, it's so easy to get that it might as well be legal.

Plus, even though it's legal, it still isn't cheap as getting a pint of shitty vodka at the liquor store...

quote:

Originally posted by Leemur:
Last time we went was in 2004.

Oh, yes, clearly marijuana is the problem, and not the degradation of cities over the last 14 years. Well, at least you didn't jump to conclusions.

??

I’m willing to accept it’s a bit of a leap but I definitely didn’t enjoy smelling it everywhere I went. Is it legal to smoke out in public?

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
I think you made a huge leap between legal weed and what you observed. Your last visit was 14 years ago. I don't think weed is the only change.

The population of the Las Vegas area is up. The number of visitors is up from 37 million annually to 42 million over that period of time.

It is really easy to confuse correlation with causation.

I have former neighbors who are also friends and family, they have lived in Vegas for 20 years now. They were here over the weekend, paint the same pic as the OP.

Yes it is easy to confuse correlation with causation. It is also very easy to deny any causation if it doesn't fit your preferences or political agenda.

I might suggest it is the overall degradation of society that has lead to both.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
I think you made a huge leap between legal weed and what you observed. Your last visit was 14 years ago. I don't think weed is the only change.

The population of the Las Vegas area is up. The number of visitors is up from 37 million annually to 42 million over that period of time.

It is really easy to confuse correlation with causation.

Maybe, but I was there in 2016 with my son for the McGregor-Diaz fight and didn’t see any of the activity that Leemur describes.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by Leemur:
Last time we went was in 2004.

Oh, yes, clearly marijuana is the problem, and not the degradation of cities over the last 14 years. Well, at least you didn't jump to conclusions.

??

Degeneration of our cities....degeneration of our morality...erosion of our Constitutional rights...increased use of stronger marijuana...the rise of the Liberal nanny-state...
(and quite a few other phenomena)

These are not just "coincidences" or unrelated phenomena....they are connected through the destruction of clear thinking, abdication of personal responsibility, selfishness, and laziness. It was all predicted quite accurately in Brave New World (as well as some other sources.)

But why do I care ? A gram is better than a damn! Party on! Stop making people feel "uncomfortable".

I visit a couple times every year ( and have since about 2003).
The only difference between before and after the legalization is the the smell. I don't particularly like it, and it seems to permeate the streets now.
In my opinion the biggest change in cleanliness and appearance occurred when the real estate market crashed about 8 years ago. Also, in my opinion things have improved slightly since then.

Marijuana isn’t the problem. I went to Colorado Springs, visited a dispensary and had an excellent time. The city was beautiful and the people were awesome. If it’s truly the marijuanas fault CO Springs and it’s surrounding areas should be a dump too.

Is it the weed or the degradation?

Easy to tell.

After a day (or night, after all, it is Vegas...) look at your fingers.

If they are orange and taste of Cheetos or Doritos, it's weed.

If not, it's just the decay (or progress, depending on your POV) of society as we knew it.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
Is it the weed or the degradation?

Is it the fall or the sudden stop at the end of the fall ?

Some phenomena are intimately related. It is an exercise in pseudo-intellectual sophistry to try to distinguish the cause and effect.

I either go to or work in Vegas 2 to 3 times a year

weed isn't the problem

quote:

Originally posted by Leemur:
Last time the Strip was spotless clean. .

Sure you're not remembering Las Vegas, NM? I've never been to Vegas where the strip was spotless. Always vagrants, trash, flier being handed out and on the ground, etc. Part of the 'charm', right?

quote:

Originally posted by TSE:
I visit a couple times every year ( and have since about 2003).
The only difference between before and after the legalization is the the smell. I don't particularly like it, and it seems to permeate the streets now.
In my opinion the biggest change in cleanliness and appearance occurred when the real estate market crashed about 8 years ago. Also, in my opinion things have improved slightly since then.

I had forgotten about the real estate crash, which hit Nevada and Las Vegas hard. I would expect a general decrease in prosperity to have a large influence on such things.

And Scoutmaster, that comment about confirmation bias goes both ways.

quote:

Originally posted by Crom:....
Degeneration of our cities....degeneration of our morality...erosion of our Constitutional rights...increased use of stronger marijuana...the rise of the Liberal nanny-state...
(and quite a few other phenomena)

These are not just "coincidences" or unrelated phenomena....they are connected through the destruction of clear thinking, abdication of personal responsibility, selfishness, and laziness. It was all predicted quite accurately in Brave New World (as well as some other sources.)

But why do I care ? A gram is better than a damn! Party on! Stop making people feel "uncomfortable".

I think this needs a repeat. And you/we care because we have family who must live in the growing cesspool. But it is easy to deny society's choices that lead to the problems, to disconnect the flash from the bang.

quote:

Originally posted by zipriderson:

quote:

Originally posted by Leemur:
Last time the Strip was spotless clean. .

Sure you're not remembering Las Vegas, NM? I've never been to Vegas where the strip was spotless. Always vagrants, trash, flier being handed out and on the ground, etc. Part of the 'charm', right?

I was there in 2003 and 2004 and didn’t see a single bum or passed out drunk on the sidewalk of the strip. The casinos used to keep the areas around their property pleasant to encourage you spending your money there. I saw one drunk act up in front of a casino and he got disappeared in a matter of minutes. I’d also forgotten about the real estate crash hitting Vegas so hard.

I don’t judge people that enjoy recreational weed but I damn sure don’t like smelling it. Guess I’m just a boring old bastard now.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:....And Scoutmaster, that comment about confirmation bias goes both ways.

Seems to me attys are paid to have confirmation bias. Accountants and auditors get in trouble if they have confirmation bias.

I agree confirmation bias goes both ways. But how many point out such bias in their opponent while ignoring or denying their own bias? Double standards are quite common in society today.