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Maryland trooper manages to defend his life while being dragged by fleeing DUI suspect's car! Login/Join 
Step by step walk the thousand mile road
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posted
This trooper has a Level 100 "Staying in the Fight."


quote:
Foxnews.com: Maryland trooper fatally shoots DUI suspect while being dragged by vehicle for half a mile, police say

A suspected drunk driver was shot and killed early Friday on I-95 as he dragged a Maryland trooper a half-mile with his vehicle, police said.

The investigation into the 2 a.m. shooting shut down the northbound lanes of the highway in Elkridge, outside Baltimore, until 9 a.m., according to reports.

The officer was thrown from the vehicle after the shooting but wasn't seriously hurt. He was treated and released from the hospital, police said.

The person shot, later identified as Julio Cesar Moran-Ruiz, 36, of Baltimore, was in a Ford Escape and refused an order to exit his vehicle so the trooper could conduct a field sobriety test and then tried to speed away as the trooper hung on, Maryland Police Superintendent Woodrow Jones III said during a news conference Friday morning.

“The trooper yelled repeatedly to stop and warned that he was going to shoot,” Jones said.

He said the trooper was in fear of his life when he fired his weapon.

The gunfire brought the vehicle to a crashing stop, Jones said. After being thrown from the vehicle, the trooper was found by other troopers in the center median.

Moran-Ruiz had no identification on him and gave the trooper a false name, he said.

The trooper was on DUI duty and stopped the Ford after seeing it weaving across lanes, Jones said. The trooper then saw alcohol containers in the vehicle after it pulled over onto the shoulder.

Troopers said a search of the vehicle turned up a machete under the front seat.


We'll never know from uber liberal Maryland, but I'd bet cash and give odds that Mr. Moran-Ruiz is not in the US on a valid visa.





Nice is overrated

"It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government."
Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018
 
Posts: 31382 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: May 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Sig2340:
This trooper has a Level 100 "Staying in the Fight."


[QUOTE] Foxnews.com: Maryland trooper fatally shoots DUI suspect while being dragged by vehicle for half a mile, police say

The officer was thrown from the vehicle after the shooting but wasn't seriously hurt. He was treated and released from the hospital, police said.


This is one of those cases where the attorney(s) for the offender attempts to project blame on the officer because the choice of tactic(s) used to make the arrest could have been better/different, using the advantage of "20/20 hindsight".

That the offender resisted arrest when the officer/trooper attempted to remove him from the vehicle is minimized or ignored, when in fact it's the reason things became violent. The attorney is going to argue that the trooper shoulda/woulda/coulda, done something (anything) other than attempt to overcome the unlawful attempt to resist and flee the scene. Bottom line: Simply submitting to the authority of the arresting officer was the obligation of the accused, and he'd have had every opportunity to fight the criminal allegations just like the rest of us, where they should be fought: In court.

Defenders of this offender will display the bigotry of low expectations by insisting the accused was too stupid, poorly educated (by the Left frequently), or "scared" to act in the civilized manner like the rest of us. They're playing to their lowest common denominator of supporters and as we can see in so many other posts, this PR campaign is frequently successful, especially if supporters of these tactics work their way into positions of authority in local, state, or federal government.


"I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."
 
Posts: 10187 | Location: The Free State of Arizona | Registered: June 13, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The link has a photo of the - sob - "victim" and the predictable cries of "racism" and of course demands for more de-escalation training. It's hard to read.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/n...emzcq4tgu-story.html

Maryland State Police trooper fatally shoots driver after man allegedly dragged him with car

(What's this "allegedly dragged" shit???)

By HALLIE MILLER, STEPHANIE GARCÍA and PHILLIP JACKSON
BALTIMORE SUN |
AUG 28, 2020 AT 7:06 PM

A Maryland State Police trooper fatally shot a man who police said dragged the trooper more than a third of a mile after being pulled over on Interstate 95 in Elkridge early Friday morning, officials said.

The man, identified by Maryland State Police as 36-year-old Julio Cesar Moran-Ruiz of Baltimore, was weaving in and out of lanes on the highway when the state trooper initiated a traffic stop shortly after 2 a.m. near Route 100 in Elkridge, police said. Moran-Ruiz pulled his vehicle over onto the right shoulder and the trooper called for backup to conduct a routine sobriety test, police said.

The troopers asked Moran-Ruiz, whom state police identified as an Hispanic male with no identification on him at the time, to step out of the car. He was showing “obvious signs of impairment,” the state police wrote in a news release, and refused to step out of the vehicle.

The trooper on the driver’s side attempted to reach through the car window and take the keys from the ignition but was not successful, state police said. The driver restarted the car and put it in drive with the trooper’s upper body still inside.

Dragged more than 2,000 feet down the interstate, the trooper shot the driver with his agency-issued pistol, state police said.

Moran-Ruiz was pronounced dead by emergency medical personnel on the scene, state police said, while the trooper was treated at Shock Trauma for his injuries. The second officer found him in the highway median, not far from where the car stopped moving, state police said.

The trooper, who was only identified as a three-year veteran, sustained injuries to his “lower extremities” and has already been released from Shock Trauma, said Woodrow W. “Jerry” Jones III, superintendent of the Maryland State Police, at a Friday morning news conference.

He and the other trooper who responded to the scene have been placed on administrative leave, Jones said. Such leave is standard whenever a trooper is involved in a shooting.

Esmeralda Méndez, 39, who said she was married to Moran-Ruiz for 16 years, told The Baltimore Sun that her husband was a good father.

”He was good. He loved his kids,” she said in a phone interview.

She said Moran-Ruiz, who worked in construction, had lived in Baltimore since 2002. She has lived here since 2004. The couple have three children, ages 11, 9 and 5.

Méndez said the police came to her home this morning to tell her that her husband was dead.

”They only told me that he had died and that he had been shot by police. They couldn’t give me more details because there is an investigation,” she said.

Devin Luqman, an attorney who represents Moran-Ruiz’s family, said his clients are “in a state of mourning.”

“They have already lost a family member last week due to natural causes,” he said. “And to have this happen right after, they’re definitely in shock.”

As for the circumstances of the shooting, Luqman said, “I think we are entitled to be arrested and go to court, and go to jail, and not die.

“And second, I don’t believe there is a policy that police officers can reach inside of a vehicle,” he said. “And that’s very concerning.”

Jones said no policy dictates whether or not troopers can reach into a car, but “we certainly don’t want that person back on the highway” if he was driving under the influence. He said such actions are left up to the trooper’s autonomy and discretion.

The incident comes as supporters of the Black Lives Matter movement highlight the disproportionate killing of Black people by the police and call for an end to structural racism. In the last week alone, protests have swelled around the country to raise awareness of the police shooting of 29-year-old Jacob Blake, whom police in Kenosha, Wisconsin, shot in the back in front of his children during an arrest.

Franca Muller Paz, a community organizer running as a Green Party candidate for Baltimore City Council in the 12th District, called Friday’s incident unnecessarily tragic.

”What seems to have been an apparent DUI resulted in a death sentence, and now an officer has been severely injured,” Muller Paz said. “This is another sign that we need to find new strategies for public safety, one that can more effectively de-escalate situations both for the lives and well being of civilians and also a police officer.”

Jones said the trooper, while being dragged by the motorist, repeatedly asked him to stop the car and warned he would shoot. The driver continued to accelerate, Jones said, and the trooper fired. He did not say how many shots were fired.

Moran-Ruiz allegedly gave state troopers a false name upon being questioned, Jones said. The investigation into the incident is ongoing, state police said.

In an email, Maryland State Police spokeswoman Elena Russo said in-car camera footage captured the incident but will not be released at this time, as it is being reviewed as part of the investigation. She did not say when it was expected to be released.

As members of Baltimore’s Latino community learned of the incident, they sought to get more information before reacting to the shooting.

Felipe A. Filomeno, co-chair of Latino Racial Justice Circle, said that in general police and members of the Baltimore’s Latino community need to keep building better relationships.

It’s “ongoing trust-building work, because in the Latino community, people have a hard time making a difference, distinguishing federal immigration officers from local police,” Filomeno said. “You know, they’re all authorities. And so this is an ongoing public relations effort, on part of the Baltimore Police Department and also on the state level police force.”

Muller Paz said the Latino community faces some of the same issues with police that the Black community does.

”There are marches for Black Lives Matter … I think it’s really important for the Latino community to also see that that’s our struggle too,” she said.


Stephanie Garcia is a 2020-21 corps member for Report for America, an initiative of the GroundTruth Project, a national service program that places emerging journalists in local newsrooms. She covers issues relevant to Latino communities.
 
Posts: 15899 | Location: Eastern Iowa | Registered: May 21, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
No double standards
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Somehow some media will blame the officer. Couldn't you shoot him in the leg? How many divide by zero's do we need before liberals start to wake up? (Maybe they are awake, just not honest). Roll Eyes




"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it"
- Judge Learned Hand, May 1944
 
Posts: 30668 | Location: UT | Registered: November 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
It's not easy being me
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I'm curious. How does one "allegedly" drag a person 2,000 feet with a vehicle?? I hope the trooper can recover from this (mentally & physically).


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Posts: 2769 | Location: Middle TN | Registered: March 22, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by craglawnmanor:
I'm curious. How does one "allegedly" drag a person 2,000 feet with a vehicle?? I hope the trooper can recover from this (mentally & physically).


Criminals get the benefit of the doubt, innocent unless and until proven guilty. But police get the opposite treatment, guilty unless and until proven innocent.




"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it"
- Judge Learned Hand, May 1944
 
Posts: 30668 | Location: UT | Registered: November 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I would love to know if the troop is left handed.
 
Posts: 686 | Location: Rural W. MI | Registered: February 25, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As for the circumstances of the shooting, Luqman said, “I think we are entitled to be arrested and go to court, and go to jail, and not die.

“And second, I don’t believe there is a policy that police officers can reach inside of a vehicle,” he said. “And that’s very concerning.”



I've known many good lawyers over the years and try to stick up for them whenever possible. Guys like this make it impossible.

Yes, we are entitled to be arrested and go to court, and go to jail, and not die. If we submit to arrest, go to court and go to jail, we won't die. If we use our car to drag a state trooper for over a third of a mile on a highway, we should reasonably expect that there is a strong possibility that we will die.

The good counselor's being very concerned about the trooper reaching inside the vehicle is a harbinger of future arguments to the effect that if only the trooper hadn't reached into the car, he wouldn't have been dragged for over a third of a mile and Moran-Ruiz would still be alive.

If that's all he's got, the State of Maryland shouldn't have to worry about having to pay anything to Moran-Ruiz's family but given the current climate, they'll probably get paid something just to go away.
 
Posts: 7301 | Registered: January 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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“And second, I don’t believe there is a policy that police officers can reach inside of a vehicle,” he said. “And that’s very concerning.”


For the car:
Pennsylvania v. Mimms, 434 U.S. 106 (1977).

For deadly force (absorbed into Graham):
Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985).

Confirming Graham is the test:
Scott v. Harris, 550 U.S. 372 (2007)

And recognizing shooting at vehicle as within Fourth Amendment when Tenn. v Garner test is met:
Brosseau v. Haugen, 543 U.S. 194 (2004).


Please support the SF "Help Mike!" campaign to raise legal fees for a 72 year old Texas teacher and hobby rancher who had 6 forgotten 9mm rounds in his checked luggage leaving T&C and faced 12 years in prison and $50k legal fees at https://fundrazr.com/b2KZgc.
 
Posts: 2023 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: April 24, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Throughout my LE career, I never understood why otherwise good, competent, officers would do something so monumentally stupid as to reach into an occupied car to grab keys which almost universally are on the other side of the steering column and need them to put themselves within reach of a possibly hostile, and presumably uncooperative driver..

As FTO, I would tech rookies to never, ever, do it and I have never found any agency that includes this manouver as part of their training or policy.

Kudos to the trooper for surviving what must have been a terrifying few minutes and canceling the perp's ticket, but man, he's fortunate to be here to tell the tale.

Sometimes it's better to be lucky, than good.
 
Posts: 2763 | Location: Lake Country, Minnesota | Registered: September 06, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because something is legal to do doesn't mean it is the smart thing to do.
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Pyker,
I agree 100%


Integrity is doing the right thing, even when nobody is looking.
 
Posts: 4127 | Location: Metamora MI | Registered: October 31, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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https://youtu.be/5Gi7h5eQLG0

This video is semi-local to me. Officer stops car, smells marijuana, gets driver out and goes to handcuff him, and then everything goes to shit. Traffic stop starts about 2:25 into the video, shooting occurs about a minute or a bit longer later. Officer is a right-hander and manages to shoot the driver as he starts to drag him away. This kind of incident is also a glimpse at how you end up going into a car after a guy. It was a very physical encounter that devolved very quickly.

The whole incident has been fairly controversial and the officer was terminated recently (several years after being cleared) for allegedly lying about something during the investigation. This was during the height of the Minneapolis-fueled protesting in their city. Note that the officer was actually promoted to sergeant between the shooting and his termination.

I don't see how there is any question that shooting the guy was reasonable (and neither did the agency in their internal investigation, the state agency that did the criminal investigation of the shouting, or the county attorney that ruled the shooting justified, but you know, systemic racism and all that...
 
Posts: 5143 | Location: Iowa | Registered: February 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Pyker:
Throughout my LE career, I never understood why otherwise good, competent, officers would do something so monumentally stupid as to reach into an occupied car to grab keys which almost universally are on the other side of the steering column and need them to put themselves within reach of a possibly hostile, and presumably uncooperative driver..

As FTO, I would tech rookies to never, ever, do it and I have never found any agency that includes this manouver as part of their training or policy.

Kudos to the trooper for surviving what must have been a terrifying few minutes and canceling the perp's ticket, but man, he's fortunate to be here to tell the tale.

Sometimes it's better to be lucky, than good.


You never had a drunk passed out behind the wheel sitting at a stop light with the foot on the brake and the car running in drive? How do you take care of that call w/o reaching in putting the car in park and turning off the car?
 
Posts: 4028 | Registered: January 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by DaBigBR:
The whole incident has been fairly controversial and the officer was terminated recently (several years after being cleared) for allegedly lying about something during the investigation. This was during the height of the Minneapolis-fueled protesting in their city. Note that the officer was actually promoted to sergeant between the shooting and his termination.

That's not what I read. He was fired for a completely unrelated case.

https://www.thegazette.com/sub...lucas-jones-20200702



Year V
 
Posts: 2613 | Registered: November 05, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You never had a drunk passed out behind the wheel sitting at a stop light with the foot on the brake and the car running in drive? How do you take care of that call w/o reaching in putting the car in park and turning off the car?


This exact thing happened to me. At a railroad crossing to boot. And the driver was a fellow officer. I had another officer park in front of the passed out driver and I popped the passenger door with a slim Jim. Then I reached in and turned off the car off. Then we woke up the driver. And we handled business.



"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein

“You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020

“A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker
 
Posts: 11247 | Location: Temple, Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by 357fuzz:
quote:
Originally posted by Pyker:
Throughout my LE career, I never understood why otherwise good, competent, officers would do something so monumentally stupid as to reach into an occupied car to grab keys which almost universally are on the other side of the steering column and need them to put themselves within reach of a possibly hostile, and presumably uncooperative driver..

As FTO, I would tech rookies to never, ever, do it and I have never found any agency that includes this manouver as part of their training or policy.

Kudos to the trooper for surviving what must have been a terrifying few minutes and canceling the perp's ticket, but man, he's fortunate to be here to tell the tale.

Sometimes it's better to be lucky, than good.


You never had a drunk passed out behind the wheel sitting at a stop light with the foot on the brake and the car running in drive? How do you take care of that call w/o reaching in putting the car in park and turning off the car?


Apples to oranges. And, yes I have. Block the car, open the door, pop the lock, walk around the back, open the passenger door, switch engine off, without getting any closer to the driver than necessary. Should the driver take off, I was already in the car with them or I had a whole door to bail from rather than being stuck half in, half out of a window.

If the locks are not centrally activated, then as above, slim jim the passenger door after blocking the vehicle with my squad.

Not ever by reaching in a window, across an already uncooperative driver.
 
Posts: 2763 | Location: Lake Country, Minnesota | Registered: September 06, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Unapologetic Old
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quote:
Originally posted by craglawnmanor:
I'm curious. How does one "allegedly" drag a person 2,000 feet with a vehicle?? I hope the trooper can recover from this (mentally & physically).


Yeah I notice the cop didn't "allegedly" shoot the guy... But the scrum bag "allegedly" dragged him.

Who knows how many or whose lives that officer saved from a crazed drunk asshole.




Don't weep for the stupid, or you will be crying all day
 
Posts: 10719 | Location: TN | Registered: December 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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In shocking news, the dead guy is a victim of - you guessed it - racist police. As yes, he's illegal.

"Loved ones say Moran-Ruiz was undocumented, that he had been deported several years ago and had come back to help care for his children. He was afraid of police, and afraid of being deported again."

Complete article:

https://www.baltimoresun.com/n...2b76mjgbq-story.html

A traffic stop, a last phone call, and a death: Family of Latino man shot by Maryland state trooper seeks answers

By STEPHANIE GARCÍA
BALTIMORE SUN |
SEP 21, 2020 AT 5:00 AM

Pulled over around 2 a.m. on the side of Interstate 95 by a Maryland State Police officer working DUI enforcement, a terrified Julio Cesar Moran-Ruiz made the last phone call of his life, pleading with a friend not to hang up the phone.

“Whatever happens,” the 36-year-old Dundalk man told her, “please speak with my sister.”

A short time later, Moran-Ruiz was dead, shot by police after he sped off in his vehicle, allegedly dragging a trooper more than 2,000 feet down the highway with him. Now, loved ones are trying to piece together what happened in the Aug. 28 encounter and figure out how to return his body to his hometown of Acapulco, Mexico.

At a news conference the morning after the shooting, Woodrow W. “Jerry” Jones III, superintendent of the Maryland State Police, said a trooper initiated a traffic stop around 2 a.m. after seeing a red Ford Escape weaving in and out of I-95′s northbound lanes near Route 100 in Elkridge. The driver, identified as Moran-Ruiz, pulled over onto the right shoulder, and the trooper called for backup to conduct a routine sobriety test, Jones said.

Moran-Ruiz had no identification on him at the time and allegedly gave state troopers a false name upon being questioned, Jones said. He was asked by troopers to step out of the vehicle and refused, showing obvious signs of impairment, according to police.

The trooper saw Moran-Ruiz put the vehicle in drive, so he reached into the car and attempted to take the keys from the ignition, Jones said.

“With the trooper leaning inside the vehicle, the driver accelerated away and drove down the interstate, dragging the trooper alongside of his vehicle,” Jones said at the time.

According to Jones, the trooper repeatedly yelled at the driver to stop and warned he would shoot.

“Fearing for his life while being dragged by the car, the trooper fired his department-issued pistol at the driver, striking him," Jones said. “The trooper was thrown from the car into the center median. He was found by another trooper not far from where the vehicle came to rest.”

Moran-Ruiz was pronounced dead at the scene. Jones reported that investigators found alcohol containers in the car and a machete under the driver seat.

The trooper, Robert Kreczmer, suffered injuries to his lower extremities and was treated and released from the University of Maryland Shock Trauma Center that morning. Kreczmer has recovered from his injuries and is on administrative duties, said Maryland State Police spokesman Ron Snyder.

Loved ones say Moran-Ruiz was undocumented, that he had been deported several years ago and had come back to help care for his children. He was afraid of police, and afraid of being deported again.

Franca Muller Paz, a grassroots organizer in Baltimore’s Latino community, said many immigrants are aware of multiple instances of police violence. But they also fear detention centers, because of the unsanitary conditions amid COVID-19 and the reported deaths in these holding facilities.

“I just think it puts a lot of fear into the hearts of our community,” said Muller Paz, who is running for a Baltimore City Council seat as a candidate for the Green party.

The man’s sister, Juana Moran-Ruiz, 33, said her brother was moving furniture that night. She said she was surprised that police described him as weaving on the road, and possibly drunk, because outside of Christmas or holidays, she said he rarely drank alcohol. She also found it surprising that he was so far from home, on the other side of town. He worked renovating houses near Johns Hopkins Hospital.

That night, Moran-Ruiz called his friend, Jocelyne Henriquez, 45, about 2 a.m. After he told her that he had been pulled over and was afraid, she asked him to send his location and said she would come get him.

“I’m not going to be let go. I’m scared,” Henriquez remembered him telling her.

Interviews with Juana Moran-Ruiz and Henriquez were conducted in Spanish and translated to English.

He told her to stay on the line and be quiet, so she could hear what was happening.

At one point, near the end of the roughly 20-minute call, she said she heard two other voices.

“They started mistreating him inside the car, yelling at him, insulting him, threatening him," Henriquez said. "The only thing I heard them tell him was ’Get out, you don’t have to be driving!' From there, I heard absolutely nothing, just a struggle, that they were fighting with him in a struggle.”

The call dropped. She called back and called back. No answer.

Later that morning, after the family got the news, his sister went to see Moran-Ruiz’s car at an impound lot. She said she didn’t see much blood in the vehicle, which surprised her. Police told her, she said, that her brother had been shot in the jugular vein.

She later learned from the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner that Moran-Ruiz died from multiple gunshot wounds. The Chief Medical Examiner would not confirm that to The Baltimore Sun.

“The car has no blood, no more than two drops of blood,” Juana Moran-Ruiz said. “A gunshot would result in a lot of blood.”

She said it doesn’t look like her brother was shot in the car.

Snyder, the state police spokesman, would not comment on the case.

State police officers do not have body cameras, but their vehicles have dash cameras, and there is footage of the incident. Snyder said there is no date for the release of that footage, and he could not say when the investigation will be complete.

As part of a reciprocal agreement, because the case is an officer-involved shooting in Howard County, it is being investigated by the Montgomery County State’s Attorney’s Office.

“It would be premature to comment further on the case," said Ramon Korionoff, a spokesman for the state’s attorney’s office, in an email. “We will review evidence, interview witnesses and go where the facts take us.”

The family was told by the medical examiner’s office that they will receive the autopsy results in four to six weeks. They want to do a second, independent autopsy but don’t have the money for one. Attorneys Aarron Johnson and Stephen Patrick Beatty are looking into the case for the family. "No one deserves to die like this, and at the hands of people who are supposed to protect them, even if someone is undocumented, they don’t have the right,” Henriquez said.

Meanwhile, family members are trying to find a way to get Moran-Ruiz’s body back to Mexico. The paperwork alone is taking weeks. To raise the money, Juana Moran-Ruiz has asked for a loan from her husband’s boss, contacted the Mexican consulate for help, and even put donation boxes in places where Julio was known.

“If they committed an error with my brother, all I want is for them to pay and be held responsible," she said, “because as I told the police officer when he came to give me the news, there were other ways."


Stephanie Garcia is a 2020-21 corps member for Report for America, an initiative of the GroundTruth Project, a national service program that places emerging journalists in local newsrooms. She covers issues relevant to Latino communities
 
Posts: 15899 | Location: Eastern Iowa | Registered: May 21, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Interesting how this would have been a simple DUI arrest and the deceased just followed instructions.

I keep wondering how these amazing father's, pillars of the community, gentle souls, people everyone looked up to, can make the absolute worst decisions. Often multiple times. Just can't figure it out I say...




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Posts: 37931 | Location: Above the snow line in Michigan | Registered: May 21, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hmmm.... How to return him to Mexico? Render him into a powdered form, pour into ziplock bag, box and mail.
Adios!


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
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