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I've studied the topic of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms for years. The problem is that there are so few of us who actually know what the Founders gave us.
Why is the 2nd so important, and what is its full context?
Does the 2nd reflect simply a right, or is it part of a structure that the Founders hoped we would maintain? Asked simply, What Does It Say?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: arcwelder76,
 
Posts: 229 | Registered: November 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
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The "latest shooting" has zero to do with the Second Amendment, or what it says. Zero. The media and corrupt socialist politicians make it about political things such as guns. Don't listen to the media.

If this moron hadn't used a gun, he'd have used explosives, knives, vehicles, etc. We need to STOP buying into this stuff and allowing ourselves to be put on the defensive, when the real issue has not one thing to do with the Second Amendment.


_______________________________________________________________________
www.opspectraining.com

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 32000 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
jljones

The Second Amendment has to do with almost everything this nation is about. It has to do with the fact that this is a nation founded on the principle of a nation of the People, liberty, safe communities, and freedom.
Did you read the article?
 
Posts: 229 | Registered: November 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Not really from Vienna
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Might want to retitle your post to reflect the content you desire us to look at.




 
Posts: 23289 | Location: Young American Teen Club | Registered: January 30, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You're right. The Second Amendment does have to do with everything this nation is about.
That list does not include mass shootings.
This nation is not about mass shootings and neither is the Second Amendment.
Don't let them make it a Second Amendment argument. Deny the premise.

Bruce




"I cannot spare this man. He fights!"
-Abraham Lincoln

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child — miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
-PJ O'Rourke
“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free."
-Niccolo Machiavelli

 
Posts: 2831 | Location: NV | Registered: October 06, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
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Interesting article. Probably 100% right. Unfortunately, I believe that ship has long since sailed. Those of us who train with firearms are doing a lot more than 99% of the population, and we are still doing less than the founders envisioned.
 
Posts: 3438 | Registered: February 23, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
goodheart
Picture of sjtill
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As the President implied: arm yourself; protect people in your church or synagogue. Get trained to respond to an active shooter. Spread the word.


_________________________
“Little else is requisite to carry a state to the highest degree of opulence from the lowest barbarism but peace, easy taxes, and a tolerable administration of justice: all the rest being brought about by the natural course of things.”--Adam Smith, born June 16, 1723
 
Posts: 14217 | Location: One hop from Paradise | Registered: July 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There is nothing to do in terms of more regulation that's for sure.

In fact - roll-backs of onerous restrictions are what we need.

'...shall not be infringed' is pretty unambiguous.

-------------------------------------------------


Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
 
Posts: 6914 | Location: Florida | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The 2nd amendment exists so that the people may be armed in event they deem it necessary to overthrow their government. Any other rights that emanate from it are secondary. Saying that out loud or in public apparently makes you seem like a wacko to a lot of people, but it's the truth.
 
Posts: 1272 | Location: WI | Registered: December 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of arcwelder76
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quote:
Originally posted by TheShootist:
I've studied the topic of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms for years. The problem is that there are so few of us who actually know what the Founders gave us.
Why is the 2nd so important, and what is its full context?
Does the 2nd reflect simply a right, or is it part of a structure that the Founders hoped we would maintain? Asked simply, What Does It Say?


By "us" I assume you mean the entire population of the USA? I wouldn't say there are "so few" who understand the 2nd Amendment.

I would say the problem is the growing number of people who have known only peace and security, who believe it is the government that provides and ensures such.

I would say the problem is anyone who has the luxury of pacifism. They claim moral high ground they neither fought for or have to defend.

I would say the problem is anyone who believes rights come from government.

All of these and more, fester on the left.

Please edit your title, as the discussion of the most recent shooting itself, was locked and should not continue here.


Arc.
______________________________

"Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash

"I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman

Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM

"You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP

 
Posts: 24908 | Location: Love that dirty water, oh | Registered: June 09, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I point out - again and again, man has killed man since the beginning of time and will continue to do the same till the end of time.

Bombs, guns, cars, knives, rocks, sharp sticks, bare hands, etc...

As other have posted, you are responsible for you and your family’s safety, not anyone else. Be armed, be trained, be prepared - at all times.


------------------------------------------------------------
Tomorrow's battle is won during today's practice.
 
Posts: 1284 | Location: Mt. Lebanon, PA | Registered: June 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of bigdeal
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quote:
Originally posted by TheShootist:
I've studied the topic of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms for years. The problem is that there are so few of us who actually know what the Founders gave us.
First, the founder's didn't 'give' us this right, they recognized that it was an inalienable right of all men, bestowed on them at birth by their creator. Government does not provide 'rights'.
quote:
Why is the 2nd so important, and what is its full context?
Does the 2nd reflect simply a right, or is it part of a structure that the Founders hoped we would maintain? Asked simply, What Does It Say?
Consider that the second amendment is the only amendment that includes the words, "...shall not be infringed". Such simple words with inarguable meaning, yet ignored constantly by government. The founders knew that government would eventually overreach and become tyrannical, and without the ability to defend themselves and their god given rights, the citizens of this country would no longer be free. So yes, the 2A is at the very core of everything this country is about.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 26864 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
delicately calloused
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If we lose liberty it is because of ignorance.



I'm sorry, I'm thinking about the cats again...
 
Posts: 24131 | Location: Highland, Ut. | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oh stewardess,
I speak jive.
Picture of 46and2
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quote:
Originally posted by Sig209:
There is nothing to do in terms of more regulation that's for sure.

In fact - roll-backs of onerous restrictions are what we need.

'...shall not be infringed' is pretty unambiguous.

-------------------------------------------------

It's likely the most unambiguous line ever written in a government document.

It's the only place in the entire Constitution where they made sure to emphasize it, even.

And yet the courts and politicians still continue to fuck it up.
 
Posts: 23006 | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
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This is not entirely true. The Second Amendment exists to provide that states with a pool of self armed, and at least semi-self trained (they should know how to shoot) men from whom they could draw to form a militia to overthrow the national government if the states feel it's run amok. The difference is subtle but significant. The wanted the states to have this power not individuals.

quote:
Originally posted by bigwagon:
The 2nd amendment exists so that the people may be armed in event they deem it necessary to overthrow their government. Any other rights that emanate from it are secondary. Saying that out loud or in public apparently makes you seem like a wacko to a lot of people, but it's the truth.
 
Posts: 18322 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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To be clear, as most all here understand - the 2A is an individual right.


SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA et al. v. HELLER

certiorari to the united states court of appeals for the district of columbia circuit

No. 07–290. Argued March 18, 2008—Decided June 26, 2008


“The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.”

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZS.html
 
Posts: 473 | Registered: April 29, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oh stewardess,
I speak jive.
Picture of 46and2
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It exists to formally acknowledge a Natural Right to self preservation, whether against a tyrannical government, an invading foreign Army, or a random asshole on the street.
 
Posts: 23006 | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ubique
Picture of TSE
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quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
This is not entirely true. The Second Amendment exists to provide that states with a pool of self armed, and at least semi-self trained (they should know how to shoot) men from whom they could draw to form a militia to overthrow the national government if the states feel it's run amok. The difference is subtle but significant. The wanted the states to have this power not individuals.

quote:
Originally posted by bigwagon:
The 2nd amendment exists so that the people may be armed in event they deem it necessary to overthrow their government. Any other rights that emanate from it are secondary. Saying that out loud or in public apparently makes you seem like a wacko to a lot of people, but it's the truth.


It mentions states no where. Why would a government feel obligated to codify it's right to be armed? What government anywhere in the world at that time was unarmed?


Calgary Shooting Centre
 
Posts: 1062 | Registered: July 06, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
This is not entirely true. The Second Amendment exists to provide that states with a pool of self armed, and at least semi-self trained (they should know how to shoot) men from whom they could draw to form a militia to overthrow the national government if the states feel it's run amok. The difference is subtle but significant. The wanted the states to have this power not individuals.

quote:
Originally posted by bigwagon:
The 2nd amendment exists so that the people may be armed in event they deem it necessary to overthrow their government. Any other rights that emanate from it are secondary. Saying that out loud or in public apparently makes you seem like a wacko to a lot of people, but it's the truth.


Perhaps you should re-read the actual verbiage of the Second Amendment. It specifically says "...the people..."

The amendments merely recognize rights inherent in being a citizen of the United States. It does not grant rights.

Given your interpretation of the Second Amendment what would happen if the "people" feel the STATE government has run amok?

The definition of Militia is/was synonymous with the People.
 
Posts: 76 | Registered: January 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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The Second Amendment is important, but regardless of what rights it gives or guarantees, the right of self-defense would exist—and has always existed—without it. And the right of self-defense would be meaningless without the equal right to keep and bear the weapons necessary for the effective exercise of that right. Without the right to possess the weapons necessary for self-defense, it would be like saying we have the right of free press but not to own paper or the freedom of religion while religious books were illegal to possess.

I consider it unfortunate that most gun rights advocates focus on a part of the Constitution that could be repealed or altered at any time rather than the more fundamental right to effectively protect one’s own existence.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
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