Cant say I am surprised. One of my idiot chiefs wanted to ban the wearing of boots and put us all in low quarter shoes.
And the vest ban may also be a penny pinching ploy so the TPD doesnt have to buy them.

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:
Good. No matter how you wear all that stuff it will be uncomfortable after a 8 to 12 hour shift. I have worn it in both configurations and it is all uncomfortable. Some officers carry too much stuff they do not need for regular patrol work. Peace Officers need to look professional and not like a Tacticool 'Operator'. I like the statement the Chief made about some of the younger Officers who have never been told NO. Don't like your Chief? Find another department.

How long do Chiefs usually stay, five years, maybe 10? Sometimes just long enough to get another pension. Chiefs that lead by example would be wearing all of the same equipment (including body cameras) everyday and all day! And make sure you keep that camera on during private meetings with the Mayor and City Counsel.

quote:

Originally posted by Kuglespritz:

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:
Good. No matter how you wear all that stuff it will be uncomfortable after a 8 to 12 hour shift. I have worn it in both configurations and it is all uncomfortable. Some officers carry too much stuff they do not need for regular patrol work. Peace Officers need to look professional and not like a Tacticool 'Operator'. I like the statement the Chief made about some of the younger Officers who have never been told NO. Don't like your Chief? Find another department.

How long do Chiefs usually stay, five years, maybe 10? Sometimes just long enough to get another pension. Chiefs that lead by example would be wearing all of the same equipment (including body cameras) everyday and all day!

How do you know he doesn't? Plenty of others have made the choice like him and lead by example. Like he said he is the Chief. He can make this order and many others around the country have.

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:

quote:

Originally posted by Kuglespritz:

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:
Good. No matter how you wear all that stuff it will be uncomfortable after a 8 to 12 hour shift. I have worn it in both configurations and it is all uncomfortable. Some officers carry too much stuff they do not need for regular patrol work. Peace Officers need to look professional and not like a Tacticool 'Operator'. I like the statement the Chief made about some of the younger Officers who have never been told NO. Don't like your Chief? Find another department.

How long do Chiefs usually stay, five years, maybe 10? Sometimes just long enough to get another pension. Chiefs that lead by example would be wearing all of the same equipment (including body cameras) everyday and all day!

How do you know he doesn't? Plenty of others have made the choice like him and lead by example. Like he said he is the Chief. He can make this order and many others around the country have.

In my 29 years, few Chiefs I've seen actually still do the job of the patrolman (or patrolwoman), which includes making stops and doing shifts on midnight. Maybe he does, but maybe he doesn't. "I'm the Chief", I love it.

Ermaghad tacticool operators. Ohhh noes. One of those scary, scary shoulder things that goes up. These military assault vest have no place on America’s streets.

Ban it because how it is perceived to look. Yep, makes total sense to me. Screw your officers health. It’s more important to virtue signal.

What a joke. One of the best things that ever happened was being authorized to wear the Safariland Oregon City external vest carrier. My back feels a lot better. Lot less complainants of back pain among the uniform patrol officers as well. We have a few guys still wearing the concealed carrier under the uniform shirt. But, the numbers are dwindling quickly.

Time to get the union and/or the FOP involved.

Easy to keep them clean. No reason to go in with a cruddy vest looking like crap. I wipe mine down with a damp washcloth every shift before roll call. Nice and clean. The guys that walk around w/ dirty ones were also the ones that wore old ratty/dirty uniform shirts as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Kuglespritz:

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:

quote:

Originally posted by Kuglespritz:

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:
Good. No matter how you wear all that stuff it will be uncomfortable after a 8 to 12 hour shift. I have worn it in both configurations and it is all uncomfortable. Some officers carry too much stuff they do not need for regular patrol work. Peace Officers need to look professional and not like a Tacticool 'Operator'. I like the statement the Chief made about some of the younger Officers who have never been told NO. Don't like your Chief? Find another department.

How long do Chiefs usually stay, five years, maybe 10? Sometimes just long enough to get another pension. Chiefs that lead by example would be wearing all of the same equipment (including body cameras) everyday and all day!

How do you know he doesn't? Plenty of others have made the choice like him and lead by example. Like he said he is the Chief. He can make this order and many others around the country have.

In my 29 years, few Chiefs I've seen actually still do the job of the patrolman (or patrolwoman), which includes making stops and doing shifts on midnight. Maybe he does, but maybe he doesn't. "I'm the Chief", I love it.

Yep. They don't go to training. They don't take calls. Most chiefs have only a single goal to simply keep their job. Most of the chief's I have served under didn't give a shit about helping us do our jobs. We fought this battle with the molle vests and a new chief relented and gave it to us and we have been happier for it. My back hurts less and it is a lot easier to run in. They are great because after a nasty sweaty call we can take them off and cool off. Back in the vest days under our shirts one you were wet you were wet all day. These vests are great! Sorry TPD!

I would think decisions like this would be made with ergonomics, safety, fit, function and looks all factored in. Not "I don't like they way they look". I don't see a problem with those vests. Stuff like that is made to do exactly what the users need it to do. It is unacceptable for officers to be getting back injuries from being required to improperly carry equipment on their belts.

Now if you want to start hanging hand grenades off the vest, maybe that is too far.

Well I got some info from my nephew.

He is even banned from wearing a LBV when out and about on gang duty, busting low level drug dealers, etc. He said they must wear "Class A's" with armor under their uniforms unless in a true SWAT situation (serving high-hazard felony warrants, blockade situations, etc.). Also, I am assuming, no more drop holsters either.

He said the union is going nuts about this and how they screwed people on overtime with a recent policy change. It is a contract year as well.

I suggested that losing the vest was fine as long as they lose a bunch of other shit they are expected to carry. I told him that the union should threaten to turn in all the non/less-lethals because officer safety is at stake with putting everything on the belt. So no more pepper spray, batons, tasers, hello-kitty de-escalation dolls and whatever else that is not lethal. Only carry gun, extra mags, cuffs, blow out kit and radio.

Oh, and he recently had to go to training for a new directive in their manual on "how to accommodate a trans, pan, bi, tri, queer, faggot whatever"

Morale is not good among the troops.

Someone set up a website to show support. There is a link to a Change.Org petition about this on this site...

Toledo for Molle

If your inclined, please visit and sign the petition.

Oh, and to and earlier question. Police chiefs are appointed by the mayor. They serve at the mayor's pleasure.

quote:

Oh, and he recently had to go to training for a new directive in their manual on "how to accommodate a trans, pan, bi, tri, queer, faggot whatever"

Don't forget religions too. I had to go to the first 4 HOUR block of what is suppose to be 18 HOURS of training in "Cultural Competency".

Well they had to come up with some sort of jobs for those with Masters and PHDs in Women's Studies and Trans Gender Studies.

I work 12s, and 3 days a week I pull a 15 or more, because of extra details. The best thing that ever happened was when they approved us to wear external carriers. Mine's not even load-bearing, but just being able to take it off when on station typing (or taking a crap) is a huge benefit. Not to mention how much cooler it is in the summer.

Anybody who thinks we need to give these up to go back to concealed carriers simply for appearance sake either a.) has never had to wear body armor for 15-20 hours a day before or b.) is just being a dick.

The chief is an idiot. A lot of departments around me allow their officers to wear those vests. Heck, several in our department wear them.

I'm contemplating going to one because I've been dealing with a sciatica issue since November and I want to get as much stuff off my duty belt as I can.

When my guys come into the station, they can take off the vest to do reports, etc. In the summer it allows you to cool off. Get a call, throw on the vest in a couple of seconds and out the door.

That chief sounds like one from a neighboring department here in PA. When the Dodge Chargers were the thing....I talked to my buddy who worked for that department. He said the chief told them they will not be getting any Chargers because......they look scary to the people!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:
There are other ways to ease the pains they reported.

flashguy

Perhaps you could enlighten us? The amount of stuff we're forced to carry has increased and the manner in which to do it has not changed. The average cop is carrying a pistol with two spare magazines, two pairs of steel handcuffs, a steel expandable baton, a heavy duty radio, a can of OC spray, and a Taser. Many are wearing or carrying at least one recording device, a tourniquet, a backup gun, a cell phone, a wallet a folding knife, a pen and notebook, some rubber gloves, a pair of search gloves, and god knows what else. Many more are carrying a third handgun magazine and/or a rifle magazine(s).

Moving weight off of the hips and onto the shoulders is a way to lessen some of the wear and tear or at least better distribute it. External carriers also provide a practical way to cool off during break periods. Concealed body armor is next to impossible to effectively ventilate during a shift.

My agency does not allow them for patrol, although it is in the works. It will be welcome.

Oh...and modern "Class A" police uniforms are essentially based on 19th century military uniforms.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

All they had was a revolver and nightstick because that's all they thought they needed.

Anyone who resisted got repeatedly cracked in the head with a nightstick or blackjack until unconscious. "Hospital or jail... One way or another, you're coming with us" was the mindset.

And anyone who fled was shot with the revolver. It wasn't until 1985 that the Supreme Court ruled that you couldn't shoot someone just for running.

The pendulum may have swung too far in the opposite direction in a number of ways these days, but that doesn't mean it needs to go all the way back to how it was. The "good old days" weren't actually so good after all.

My favorite cousin, who was my hero when I was a kid, walked a beat in Brooklyn. All he needed was his nightstick, and that was more of a symbol than a tool.

You either respect LE or you don't. As long as they look professional they should be equipped with what allows them to do their job efficiently and effectively.

quote:

Originally posted by john1:
I never wore an external load-bearing vest, just the familiar under-the-uniform conceable soft armor. My former agency has gone to those and the guys seem to like them, but I do have a question for those who use them-what happens at an active shooter incident? How does a plate carrier go over all the load carried on the soft armor vest?

I had a 5"x7" steel rifle plate in the pocket of the soft armor carrier, but at critical incidents we threw on the plate carriers that often rode on the passenger front seat.

I see some rocks in the water here for the guys with radios, Tasers, OC, trauma kits etc. up above their waist.

I don't disagree with the comfort statements, but I'm curious how you guys handle this.

My agency gave us ceramic plates and I just slid them into the pouch. So when I wear the external vest I'm wearing level IIIA soft armor and ceramic plates that will stop some rifle rounds.

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
Oh...and modern "Class A" police uniforms are essentially based on 19th century military uniforms.

And where do people think common police ranks and insignia came from? Stripes, bars, oak leaves, eagles, and especially the stars. One photo I found of the Toledo chief has him sporting at least 16—count ’em—16! stars on his uniform. Ribbons, patches, fancy buttons and patches, scrambled eggs and campaign hats, saluting and ceremonies: Want to eliminate the military look? Get rid of them all.

^^^^^^^^^
Yep

Oh the irony, those vests already were the perfect compromise of un-military LE uniform look with some practical load carry options on the bottom.

I had a carrier custom made like that for some military armor, just had him do 3 rows of Molle at the base, left the rest clean.

While we are speaking of uniforms, I was always pissed about the money my dept would spend on stupid dress hats that no one wore. And formal "full dress" uniforms? Give me a break.