Yeah... next time.

quote:

Freedom is ingrained in our souls. Americans will not stay at home.

I hope freedom is still ingrained in our souls in 4 weeks!

They really love parroting out this 9/11 death figure as if it as any relevance whatsoever. It truly is perverse.

COVID-19 deaths are most prevalent with those having an underlying health condition.

Is it possible that the underlying health condition could be more of a factor in the deaths than we are led to believe?

If a patient dies of a heart attack and is then confirmed as having COVID-19, did the heart attack cause the death or the Wuhan Virus?

Doesn’t matter, the death gets added to the total of COVID-19 deaths.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
Yeah... next time.

quote:

Freedom is ingrained in our souls. Americans will not stay at home.

I hope freedom is still ingrained in our souls in 4 weeks!

I hope I have a job in four weeks.

I do think the S. Korea model is the right way, we seriously don't have the supplies to do it. Heck 1/2 the people I see leave the rest room don't even wash their freaking hands. Americans are very selfish. Fix those three things and we could turn the economy back on tomorrow.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
chellim1,

I agree 100% with the way S. Korea handled it, unfortunately it simply won't work here for a number of reasons.

...

The other issue is that I think that right now we just have too many cases to handle it as South Korea has (at least to be as successful as they have), although if we can reduce the number of active cases enough, something similar might be an option.

South Korea's number of active cases peaked at fewer than 8,000 cases, and their number of active cases dropped below 4,000 the day before yesterday. That is few enough that significant time and effort can be spent on each individual that tests positive, finding those they may have exposed and quarantining or testing them as well.

Yesterday the number of active cases in the US passed 250,000, and it is still rapidly increasing. I don't see any way that contact tracing, testing, and individual quarantine is possible on that scale, at least not without truly egregious governmental invasion of privacy.

The Spanish Flu of 1918-19 and end of Great War have economic lessons for today’s COVID-19 pandemic; “V-shaped Recession” ?

https://www.americanthinker.co...1.html#ixzz6IfPvxrL9

Will we have a recession like in 1920–21?
By James L. Swofford

The steep recession of 1920–1921, which some observers call a depression, was probably brought on by a number of factors. WWI had just ended in November 1918, and in those days, federal government spending was reduced at the end of wars, if not all the way back to the pre-war level. The economy needed to absorb a large number of returning troops into employment, and such readjustments can slow an economy. A new institution, the Fed, made some monetary policy mistakes, tightening policy at the wrong time. People who believe that government spending stimulates an economy would believe that the post-WWI reduction in spending also contributed to the 1920–1921 economic slowdown.

None of those factors is important to our situation today, but one factor in 1920-1921 is in play currently. In 1919, there was the Spanish flu pandemic that, according to U.S. CDC estimates, killed 675,000 Americans. In proportion to current U.S. population that would be a bit over 2.1 million deaths. Unlike the current pandemic the Spanish flu of 1919–1920 was particularly deadly for young working aged adults, 20 to 40. A disease that kills producing aged people reduces output even more making the economic slowdown worse.

The 1920–1921 recession was indeed a steep one. Estimates of the drop in gross domestic product in those 18 months range from a 2.4% decline to a 6.9% plunge. Since the government mostly got out of the way and in fact had downsized after WWI ended in November 2018, the economy grew back quickly. The recovery was as rapid as the decline, and 1922 GDP was larger than in 1919. That is why the 1920–1921 economic slowdown is called a V-shaped recession or depression. The 1920–1921 economic contraction led into the roaring ’20s, which came to an end as more Fed mistakes combined with a dust bowl, etc., but that is a story for another day.

The response to the 1920–1921 recession by the US federal government was mostly non-intervention. There was no relief bill. There was no stimulus bill. There was certainly nothing like the National Recovery Act of the Great Depression that made it illegal to cut prices or other New Deal program that slowed recovery. There was no government intrusion in health insurance that increased business uncertainty and slowed the recovery from the recent Great Recession.

So where are we today compared to 1921? While U.S. troops are potentially leaving Afghanistan, no large war has ended, nor will there be a large demobilization of troops. The big drop in oil prices may help spur on some of the production lost this spring. A large-scale bailout bill has been enacted and signed. Like the National Industrial Recovery and the Affordable Care Act, the bailout bill has some recovery-slowing aspects, such as adding an extra $600 over current amounts to unemployment compensation until the end of July and making unemployment compensation eligibility broader than it is now to cover gig workers and other subcontractors until the end of the year. Still, the $600 payment is currently scheduled to end in a relatively short time, but the expanded eligibility does last long enough to possibly slow the recovery a bit. If the bailout bill is not too recovery-killing and whatever phase 4 is it is not festooned with too many recovery, killing aspects like Green New Deal clauses, then the U.S. economy has a chance to bounce back quickly from the illness-fueled slowdown, as happened in 1921–1922.

Some Coronavirus humor.

The Moron Brothers. Bluegrass. Toilet Paper.

https://youtu.be/DJZuZzU2Vsg

Some of you ladies are more likely to give yourselves strokes before suffering any other demise.

BREAKING: New York "Accidentally" Delivered Coronavirus patients to the USNS Comfort... Which was supposed to only be for NON Coronavirus Patients..

The hits just keep on rolling with the morons in charge of New York..

https://www.foxnews.com/us/cor...hip-new-york-mistake

quote:

They really love parroting out this 9/11 death figure as if it as any relevance whatsoever. It truly is perverse.

The news media won’t be happy until we equal the number of battle deaths from on both sides of the War Between The States (600+K, which was 2.2% of the total population in 1860). That same % today would be 7+ Million.

This also assumes that the Chinese have actually gotten control of the epidemic, when they may have only gotten control of the news flow about the epidemic, while it quietly continues to burn through it's population while they Chinese government forces it's people to work while it continues. There's some pretty strong evidence for this.

quote:

Originally posted by pulicords:

quote:

Originally posted by bdylan:
The Chinese were able to lock their country down and get a handle on this relatively quickly. The U.S. response was to mimic the Chinese response, but without the ability or willpower to execute. If we keep this nonsense up for months, we will look increasingly inept and become progressively weaker as a country. Our glorified 'experts' were not and still are not very imaginative in their recommendations. I imagined we would have lock down rules in effect in hot spots, but the reaction has just been ridiculous. With more testing and time to understand the threat, hopefully we coordinate a better and more sustainable response.

It's an unfortunate fact that "Going Big Fast" is best accomplished in places where an authoritarian government exists. That doesn't mean we'd want to live there all the time, but in situations like this, their ability to control citizens' movements/actions is better than ours.

quote:

Originally posted by pulicords:
It's an unfortunate fact that "Going Big Fast" is best accomplished in places where an authoritarian government exists. That doesn't mean we'd want to live there all the time, but in situations like this, their ability to control citizens' movements/actions is better than ours.

This is true.

You don't need to disbelieve what is coming out of the PRC. You can look at the successful response that Singapore took to SARS-CoV-2 to limit the spread of CoViD-19

https://www.breitbart.com/poli...k-to-illegal-aliens/

Democrats on Friday introduced a measure to amend the $2 trillion CARES Act, extending the cash payment benefit to non-citizens, including illegal aliens.

Three House Democrats, Reps. Lou Correa (CA), Judy Chu (CA), and Raúl Grijalva (AZ), introduced the Leave No Taxpayer Behind Act designed to amend the cash payment portion of the CARES Act — the $2 trillion emergency economic relief measure designed to help U.S. citizens who are facing economic hardship caused by the coronavirus pandemic — to extend to non-citizens.

Currently, the CARES Act requires recipients to have a Social Security number. ITIN (Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers) taxpayers, which include foreign nationals and those residing in the country illegally, are not eligible and will not receive cash assistance. That is an “egregious error,” according to the Democrats’ press release.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
This also assumes that the Chinese have actually gotten control of the epidemic
...while it quietly continues to burn through it's population while they Chinese government forces it's people to work while it continues. There's some pretty strong evidence for this.

Isn't that what folks on here who want to get the economy "going again" are advocating?

chillem1

I am unsure of what the USA should do as related to the South Korea experience. The infection rate far outstripped development and production of the test kits, so evaluating a 350MM population in a short enough time was/is just not possible.

The effort to flatten the curve in order to not completely overload our medical system seems the best that could be done.

An update sent to me about my former teammate.

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
This also assumes that the Chinese have actually gotten control of the epidemic
...while it quietly continues to burn through it's population while they Chinese government forces it's people to work while it continues. There's some pretty strong evidence for this.

Isn't that what folks on here who want to get the economy "going again" are advocating?

Pretty much. The case numbers will flare back up but hopefully we will have ramped up early testing capabilities AND early treatment capabilities (hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin) keeping most from advancing to the need for a ventilator.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
https://www.breitbart.com/poli...k-to-illegal-aliens/

Democrats on Friday introduced a measure to amend the $2 trillion CARES Act, extending the cash payment benefit to non-citizens, including illegal aliens.

Three House Democrats, Reps. Lou Correa (CA), Judy Chu (CA), and Raúl Grijalva (AZ), introduced the Leave No Taxpayer Behind Act designed to amend the cash payment portion of the CARES Act — the $2 trillion emergency economic relief measure designed to help U.S. citizens who are facing economic hardship caused by the coronavirus pandemic — to extend to non-citizens.

Currently, the CARES Act requires recipients to have a Social Security number. ITIN (Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers) taxpayers, which include foreign nationals and those residing in the country illegally, are not eligible and will not receive cash assistance. That is an “egregious error,” according to the Democrats’ press release.

I will spend every amount of effort I have to get anyone who would vote for that to be replaced. This pandering to the left and illegals has to stop, the slow bleeding of our economy and displacing of our lowest rungs of society in place of people who don't belong here has to stop now. We couldn't afford it before, but I'll be damned if our grandchildren have to pay for this for the rest of their lives.

Build the freaking wall and deport them all.

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
This also assumes that the Chinese have actually gotten control of the epidemic
...while it quietly continues to burn through it's population while they Chinese government forces it's people to work while it continues. There's some pretty strong evidence for this.

Isn't that what folks on here who want to get the economy "going again" are advocating?

No one here is advocating forcing people back to work. Ironically it's the complete opposite right now. Most people and businesses are being forced out of work by the government. Many will never recover.

And in any case, what is your alternative? That everyone lie curled up in his or her abode until the Wuhan is completely eradicated?

https://www.breitbart.com/radi...s-coronavirus-cases/

Ninety percent of Mount Sinai Hospital’s patients are being treated for COVID-19, explained Dr. Luiza Petre, a cardiologist and assistant clinical professor of cardiology at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine.

"what we have noticed across New York is that [with] people staying at home, we don’t see as many heart attacks, we don’t see many injuries, and the hospital need actually went down significantly. We have much less demand for health care from non-COVID patients. So I would say we’ve seen a dramatic decrease of regular healthcare needs.”

“The Comfort ship — the Navy ship that came to New York — they have a 1,000-bed capacity, and they decided to keep that ship just for non-COVID patients to divert patients who are not infected, to keep them separate, and they have only 20 patients because there’s no need. [Since] everyone is staying at home, there are no injuries. There are no emergencies, so to speak, no accidents.”