related to above post by Midwest guy

https://apnews.com/8ccd325c2be9bf454c2128dcb7bd616d

Generally speaking, 40% to 50% of patients with severe respiratory distress die while on ventilators, experts say

But 80% or more of coronavirus patients placed on the machines in New York City have died , state and city officials say.

Higher-than-normal death rates also have been reported elsewhere in the U.S., said Dr. Albert Rizzo, the American Lung Association’s chief medical officer.

Similar reports have emerged from China and the United Kingdom. One U.K. report put the figure at 66%. A very small study in Wuhan, the Chinese city where the disease first emerged, said 86% died.

Only a few weeks ago in New York City, coronavirus patients who came in quite sick were routinely placed on ventilators to keep them breathing, said Dr. Joseph Habboushe, an emergency medicine doctor who works in Manhattan hospitals.

But increasingly, physicians are trying other measures first. One is having patients lie in different positions — including on their stomachs — to allow different parts of the lung to aerate better. Another is giving patients more oxygen through nose tubes or other devices. Some doctors are experimenting with adding nitric oxide to the mix, to help improve blood flow and oxygen to the least damaged parts of the lungs.

“If we’re able to make them better without intubating them, they are more likely to have a better outcome — we think,” Habboushe said.

He said those decisions are separate from worries that there are not enough ventilators available. But that is a concern as well, Habboushe added.

There are widespread reports that coronavirus patients tend to be on ventilators much longer than other kinds of patients, said Dr. William Schaffner, an infectious diseases expert at Vanderbilt University.

Experts say that patients with bacterial pneumonia, for example, may be on a ventilator for no more than a day or two. But it’s been common for coronavirus patients to have been on a ventilator “seven days, 10 days, 15 days, and they’re passing away,” said New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, when asked about ventilator death rates during a news briefing on Wednesday.

That’s one reason for worries that ventilators could grow in short supply. Experts worry that as cases mount, doctors will be forced to make terrible decisions about who lives and who dies because they won’t have enough machines for every patient who needs one.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Putting someone on a ventilator pays 39,000 vs a mere 13,000 for no ventilator. That says it all. You think these people give a fuck whether you live or die? You're just numbers on a spreadsheet.

I don't trust what the government is saying and I don't trust what hospitals are doing.

And another thing- I'll bet the US southern border is a quiet as a church right now. Come git some, amigos!! Come on! What are you waiting for? After all, this is fucking paradise, right? Come git some. Breeeeeeeathe in all that clean fresh air and no jobs for you.

Personally, I'm hoping for an exodus by all our illegal friends, the likes of which will put the Old Testament to shame.

I know literally 100's of hospital based doctors who make these kinds of decisions every day. I can guaranfuckingtee you they care more than you will ever clearly admit. You are wrong on this one boss. Who gets put on a vent gets decided by doctors at bedside who absolutely care if their patients live. Hospital administration is not involved in those decisions.

If we can accomplish just two things as a result of this catastrophe: Drastically and I do mean drastically reduce the number of illegal aliens in this nation, and take all necessary steps to reduce our dependency on goods from the land of lying, thieving assholes known as China- if we can accomplish these two things, then, in the long run, all of this may turn out to be worth it.

quote:

Originally posted by midwest guy:
Ventilator mortality non-COVID is around 50% and COVID related is running 80%.

I'm less than an expert.... But I've also read that the mortality is 85% on ventilators. Close enough. I would also guess that it could vary by location/hospital. Maybe some are better than others.

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
I know literally 100's of hospital based doctors who make these kinds of decisions every day. I can guaranfuckingtee you they care more than you will ever clearly admit. You are wrong on this one boss. Who gets put on a vent gets decided by doctors at bedside who absolutely care if their patients live. Hospital administration is not involved in those decisions.

I don't believe it. Everything in hospitals is driven by a desire to increase profits.

And I spent more than twenty years in the medical field and know more MDs than 95% of forum members. I'm not talking out of my ass. I know a thing or two about how this shit works, and none of it is related to the Hippocratic Oath. The almighty dollar rules the day.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
If we can accomplish just two things as a result of this catastrophe: Drastically and I do mean drastically reduce the number of illegal aliens in this nation, and take all necessary steps to reduce our dependency on goods from the land of lying, thieving assholes known as China- if we can accomplish these two things, then, in the lng run, all of this may turn out to be worth it.

From your keyboard to God's ears.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
They're juicing the numbers, and that is all there is to it.

Jensen then told Ingraham that under the CDC guidelines, a patient who died after being hit by a bus and tested positive for coronavirus would be listed as having presumed to have died from the virus regardless of whatever damage was caused by the bus.

and...

quote:

"Right now Medicare has determined that if you have a COVID-19 admission to the hospital you’ll get paid $13,000. If that COVID-19 patient goes on a ventilator, you get $39,000; three times as much. Nobody can tell me, after 35 years in the world of medicine, that sometimes those kinds of things [have] impact on what we do."

Read it again. They'll put you on a Goddamned ventilator- a condition which you may not actually require and from which you may very well not recover- just to line their Goddamned pockets.

Do you know what it means to be put on a ventilator? I mean what the patient may experience? Trust me- trust me- going on a ventilator is about the last thing you want. It's the end of the line, and docs and hospital administrators will put you through that torture just for filthy fucking money.

Half of patients with this virus, who get put on ventilators, die. Don't tell me it's more complicated than that; I know it's more complicated than that, and anyone who is being honest knows that I am speaking the truth in this post.

.

I read essentially the same thing yesterday, but I don’t have a link to share. The article said Medicare is getting billed higher amounts for COVID-19 cases.

This is correct. The CARES act dictated that. Plus all major insurance carriers are paying all Covid-related facility claims at 100%. No copays or deductibles. Lots of room for abuse.

In Australia, the 4 day Easter long weekend is going to be a challenge for the complacent.

Easter, a time when many travel as a family, to see family, hook up the caravan and go-a-gypsying.
Visit the wineries, that B&B, social gathering for cricket or footy in the park.
Partying, and in general, get out into public places.
Hop into the car and go out with a friend or friends.
Easter egg hunts in public places.

Social gatherings for two or more, indoors or outdoors (family unit exclusion), banned.

The only reasons for traveling over this Easter break, are for essentials such as going to the supermarket, pharmacy, going to work, or a funeral (10 people) or wedding (5 people).

Yes, you can exercise, walk or run. But not on the beaches, they are closed.

On the spot fines will be issued by police, for deliberate, blatant, or obvious breaches.
In my state, Victoria, AUD1652

Tasmania is the exception, as that State has no laws for police to be able to issue on spot the fines. You’ll be summonsed or arrested.

And if you are under a public health order to self-isolate, and you decide that a bit of look around is in order, or maybe that nightclub siren song calls you well:

In Western Australia AUD50,000 fine AND 12 months in the pokey. Your own room - 3 squares and a cot.

Just stay at home.



Bondi, Sydney on 4 April 2020: Police officers ride horses as they patrol during a partial lockdown.
(Photographer: Brendon Thorne/Bloomberg)

Really, just stay at home.
Don't put first responders, or others, at risk.

--chris

^^ Called my grandfather. No Passover this year. In all my years on this earth that's never happened. I didn't ask him, but I'd guess in all his years (86) it's never happened either. What a weird Easter/Passover week/Weekend it will be all over the globe. Everyone call your loved ones especially those without family's or living alone.

The 800 dollar band aid is why the whole "donate PPE to your hospital" thing really pissed me off.
Charge people outrageous amounts of money for health care but cant stock enough equipment for a prolonged emergency? Then want me to bail you out?
Nope. And all you guys saying hospitals are broke?
Funny.... A 300 million dollar for profit one just sprung up here last summer. Why would you build it if it will go broke?

quote:

Would you rather they charge you $1 for the band aid and a mandatory $799 charge for a “patients who can’t pay for services fee?”

Yes. Always.

look at type 2 diabetes. instead of giving you diet advice that will reverse this easily, they prescribe a pill, then increase the dosage, then you're mainlining insulin, then you amputate limbs and go blind or die. they having a vested interest in keeping you sick. doctors, nurses, and the alphabet soup (american diabetes association, american heart association). yes, there are doctors and nurses who are wise to this - but i've yet to run into any when i accompany my wife on her 6 month visits.

I hadn't realized this, earlier, but I just found out, courtesy of the NRA, fracking Whitmer removed gun stores from the "critical" designation list, thereby forcing them all to close.

Goddamn leftist bitch

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
If we can accomplish just two things as a result of this catastrophe: Drastically and I do mean drastically reduce the number of illegal aliens in this nation, and take all necessary steps to reduce our dependency on goods from the land of lying, thieving assholes known as China- if we can accomplish these two things, then, in the long run, all of this may turn out to be worth it.

I agree on both points, but it's easier said than actually done. Easiest way to get rid of illegals is to cut off all financial help for them. Many will go back or not come if they don't get all the freebies. We also need to make the legal process for GOOD immigrants to come here a bit easier.

As for the China goods, Americans will be Americans......Most are cheap bastards who want to buy the cheapest item that serves their purpose, rather than spend extra for a U.S. made quality product. It's easy to find a lot of products that aren't Chinese made, you just have to pay more for them. Generally they're much better quality, but try telling that to 8 out of 10 people.

quote:

Originally posted by f2:
look at type 2 diabetes. instead of giving you diet advice that will reverse this easily, they prescribe a pill, then increase the dosage, then you're mainlining insulin, then you amputate limbs and go blind or die. they having a vested interest in keeping you sick. doctors, nurses, and the alphabet soup (american diabetes association, american heart association). yes, there are doctors and nurses who are wise to this - but i've yet to run into any when i accompany my wife on her 6 month visits.

My sister is a pharmaceutical rep for insulin drugs. TRY telling 9 out of 10 people that have type 2 diabetes to exercise, lose weight, stop eating sugar......and they'll say yeah yeah yeah and not change a thing.....it's not the doctors, it's the lazy patients.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
I agree on both points, but it's easier said than actually done.

Do I give you the impression that I needed to be told this?

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
My sister is a pharmaceutical rep for insulin drugs. TRY telling 9 out of 10 people that have type 2 diabetes to exercise, lose weight, stop eating sugar......and they'll say yeah yeah yeah and not change a thing.....it's not the doctors, it's the lazy patients.

the ada's advice is to keep eating carbs, keep eating sugar. the ada's diabetes diet class and handbook says to keep eating carbs, keep eating sugar. the ama's advice is to keep eating carbs, keep eating sugar. pretty damn clear what the message is - stay stick.

I had shoulder surgery several years ago and was in the hospital for three days. As a diabetic they would not let me regulate my insulin levels. they insisted on doing it for me and they did a lousy job. My sugar levels were very high during my stay and then I received the bill. It was thousands of dollars and it was ineffective sugar management. I watched the nurses scan bar codes for every thing they did. They scanned first and then provided treatment later. They might as well have walked in with a cash register to tally the bill. I wont blame Doctors or nurses but hospitals are a for profit business and making profit is what administrators demand. Hospitals make bank and they also have a roll in how under prepared out medical staff was during this virus nightmare considering the medical communities bankroll.

I have noticed last evening while watching the tube, that COVID-19 has now hired its own advertising and media consulting service. Almost every commercial was from myriad companies telling me how they were helping me out during this difficult time. While I spend money with them, of course.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Most Americans do not live in gated communities and have personal bodyguard protection 24/7. Most Americans are on their own, and it's a dangerous world. The police can't protect us.

Empty-headed fool. There's not a chance in Hell that this twit will ever figure it out.

There is an upside to this though. The people she's pissing off with this twaddle are not us dyed in the wool firearm owners, but rather, newbies and until recently, liberals. If she keeps yapping she'll eventually piss off everyone.