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When will the coronavirus arrive in the US? (Disease: COVID-19; Virus: SARS-CoV-2) Login/Join 
Peripheral Visionary
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https://www.dailywire.com/news...ically-revises-model

quote:

MARCH 26TH, 2020
Epidemiologist Behind Highly-Cited Coronavirus Model Drastically Revises Model

Epidemiologist Neil Ferguson, who created the highly-cited Imperial College London coronavirus model, which has been cited by organizations like The New York Times and has been instrumental in governmental policy decision-making, offered a massive revision to his model on Wednesday.

Ferguson’s model projected 2.2 million dead people in the United States and 500,000 in the U.K. from COVID-19 if no action were taken to slow the virus and blunt its curve.

However, after just one day of ordered lockdowns in the U.K., Ferguson is presenting drastically downgraded estimates, revealing that far more people likely have the virus than his team figured. Now, the epidemiologist predicts, hospitals will be just fine taking on COVID-19 patients and estimates 20,000 or far fewer people will die from the virus itself or from its agitation of other ailments, as reported by New Scientist Wednesday.

Ferguson thus dropped his prediction from 500,000 dead to 20,000.

Author and former New York Times reporter Alex Berenson broke down the bombshell report via Twitter on Thursday morning (view Twitter thread below).

“This is a remarkable turn from Neil Ferguson, who led the [Imperial College] authors who warned of 500,000 UK deaths — and who has now himself tested positive for #COVID,” started Berenson.

“He now says both that the U.K. should have enough ICU beds and that the coronavirus will probably kill under 20,000 people in the U.K. — more than 1/2 of whom would have died by the end of the year in any case [because] they were so old and sick,” he wrote.

To put this number in context, there are usually thousands of deaths from the flu each year in the U.K. Here is some information from the University of Oxford on deaths ranging from 600-13,000 per year:

Influenza (flu) is a very common, highly infectious disease caused by a virus. It can be very dangerous, causing serious complications and death, especially for people in risk groups. In rare cases flu can kill people who are otherwise healthy. In the UK it is estimated that an average of 600 people a year die from complications of flu. In some years it is estimated that this can rise to over 10,000 deaths (see for example this UK study from 2013, which estimated over 13,000 deaths resulting from flu in 2008-09). Flu leads to hundreds of thousands of GP visits and tens of thousands of hospital stays a year.

Berenson continued: “Essentially, what has happened is that estimates of the viruses transmissibility have increased — which implies that many more people have already gotten it than we realize — which in turn implies it is less dangerous.”

“Ferguson now predicts that the epidemic in the U.K. will peak and subside within ‘two to three weeks’ — last week’s paper said 18+ months of quarantine would be necessary,” the former reporter highlighted.

“One last point here: Ferguson gives the lockdown credit, which is *interesting* — the UK only began [its] lockdown 2 days ago, and the theory is that lockdowns take 2 weeks or more to work,” stressed Berenson. “Not surprisingly, this testimony has received no attention in the US — I found it only in UK papers. Team Apocalypse is not interested.”

Ferguson’s change of tune comes days after Oxford epidemiologist Sunetra Gupta criticized the professor’s model.

“I am surprised that there has been such unqualified acceptance of the Imperial model,” Gupta said, according to the Financial Times.

Professor Gupta led a team of researchers at Oxford in a modeling study which suggests that the virus has been invisibly spreading for at least a month earlier than suspected, concluding that as many as half of the people in the United Kingdom have already been infected by COVID-19.

If her model is accurate, fewer than one in a thousand who’ve been infected with COVID-19 become sick enough to need hospitalization, leaving the vast majority with mild cases or free of symptoms.

In other words, Ferguson’s highly influential initial model was off by orders of magnitude





 
Posts: 11360 | Location: Texas | Registered: January 29, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by BansheeOne:
The way the South Korean rate is approaching the one percent seen in the Diamond Princess, which has been pointed out to be a controlled if small population with no doubt about undiscovered cases, I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be the the general CFR given appropriate medical care.


Well, South Korea has now gone well beyond the one-percent mark and reached 1.4 again, about the same CFR currently seen in the US. Of course that's still not final, but with the curve of active cases now dropping as more people recover than the 60-150 new infections still found each day with their extensive testing, seems this bug is a bit more aggressive than judged from the small Diamond Princess sample.

Spain and France look bad. A team of German doctors visiting Strasbourg reported that patients over 80 are no longer put on ventilators but only sedated to ease their suffering before death. Then there was this story:

quote:
Spanish Military Finds Dead Bodies And Seniors 'Completely Abandoned' In Care Homes

March 24, 20201:08 PM ET

The Spanish military has found older residents of some care homes "completely abandoned" and even "dead in their beds," Defense Minister Margarita Robles said in a television interview on Monday.

They were found as soldiers disinfected and provided emergency health care services this week to residential homes across the country. Robles did not give an exact figure for the number of dead bodies found by Spanish soldiers.

With more than 39,000 confirmed cases of COVID-19 and 2,800 deaths as of Tuesday, Spain is the second hardest-hit country in Europe.

On Tuesday, 514 new deaths were registered in a 24-hour period, the worst increase since the outbreak began. Retirement homes have been particularly affected.

Last week, one privately owned home in Madrid reported 20 deaths and 75 infections, claiming it didn't have adequate material to take care of the sick residents and dead bodies.

While the usual protocol in Spanish nursing homes is to put the body of a deceased person in cold storage until a funeral service picks it up, bodies are now being left in beds until properly equipped staff can remove them.

Speaking in a television interview, Robles said staff in some centers had left the nursing homes after cases of COVID-19 were detected. Residents were abandoned to take care of themselves, even though some were sick and in serious condition.

The defense minister said the government will take action against those responsible. "We will be completely relentless and forceful with the kind of treatment elderly residents receive in these centers," Robles said. "I know that a vast majority [of centers] are fulfilling their obligations."

Meanwhile, Spanish prosecutors have launched an investigation into the incidents. In Spain, around 19% of the population is older than 65; the country has one of the longest life expectancies in the world.

[...]


https://www.npr.org/sections/c...andoned-in-care-home

Italy - 8,215 : 80,539 = 10.2 %

US - 1,100 : 75,665 = 1.5 %

Spain - 4,145 : 56,197 = 7.4 %

Germany - 239 : 43,646 = 0.5 %

France - 1,331 : 25,233 = 5.3 %

Switzerland - 191 : 11,712 = 1.6 %

UK - 477 : 9,849 = 4.7 %

South Korea - 131 : 9,241 = 1.4 %

Netherlands - 434 : 7,431 = 5.8 %

Austria - 49 : 6,703 = 0.7 %

Belgium - 220 : 6,235 = 3.5 %

[Canada, Portugal, Norway]

Sweden - 71 : 2,840 = 2.5 %
 
Posts: 2412 | Location: Berlin, Germany | Registered: April 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
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quote:
Originally posted by pulicords:
If this were an "ordinary" seasonal "flu" or "just a cold" with an expected death rate of 20,000, the doubters have a point. But it isn't. A death rate of 750,000 to a MILLION or more Americans over the next 12 months is far more serious.


Obviously that would be worse. But that isn't going to happen and was never going to happen in any case.

It's just so disappointing to see so many buy into this "global warming" type hysteria. And that's what it is.

If you ever wondered what it's like to be one of these climate change zealots--the belief unequivocally that the world will end in 12 years, mass extinctions, the planet under water, etc--and you are one of these people buying into this millions of Americans dead scenario unless we destroy the economy and lock ourselves indoors for months, well now you know.

But why wouldn't you believe that, right? After all, that's what all the experts on tv are telling us. And the experts are never wrong.


~Alan

Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Patron)
God, Family, Guns, Country

Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan

"Once there was only dark. If you ask me, light is winning." ~Rust Cohle
 
Posts: 30401 | Location: Elv. 7,000 feet, Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
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quote:
Originally posted by Patriot:


They are on the front lines...so why would they lie???

Why would the things they say not be true?


Money, mainly. Hospitals are in the business of making money. They don't have a lot of "reserve" when it comes to capacity. They have majorly dropped the ball and have been caught for things that normally they would not have been caught for. I have friends that live in other places that ARE SCARED and ARE WORKING without PPE because the hospitals are telling them to do it or get out. The same hospitals are holding CV test results, because until the patient is COVID positive, they do not have to put them in isolation.

I know you guys desperately do not want to be wrong on this, but the hospitals have dropped the ball putting profits over preparedness. In any given Friday night, your local ER is triaging people in the hallways because all the beds are full. Most days, ICU is nearly full. Put any of that under a load, and it spills over. Plus, do you really think that NYC can't handle the dead with their population size? Or are they isolating the dead in a separate area, like a freezer truck, on purpose.

Someone, or something has to be the blame.

Our lefty governor told us yesterday that hospitals in the state are mostly empty. It's probably the only thing I believe that he's said. Looking at the parking lots of the two trauma centers between here and work they are empty, with wait times at the ER being 0.

(Before the butthurt flows, it is not the fault of the doctors or nurses. They don't control things)




www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



 
Posts: 37117 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Internet Guru
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quote:
Originally posted by midwest guy:
quote:
Originally posted by bdylan:
History will record this as mass hysteria. I believe I understand the politics of the situation and why the President had to initially go along, but this trillion dollar socialist train wreck is a huge mistake and the country never should have pretended to go on lockdown...it simply will not work here. The stores are packed and I'm sitting in traffic just like always.


Interesting observations, the medical front lines are being stretched to their capacity. So we should just say ok folks all good now, business as usual. I’m afraid the Great Panic narrative has already been negated by the overwhelming of our health system and the lack of PPE. Remember On February 26 we were told this was pretty much airtight and to buy the dips. Bless you all.


We aren't prepared for this pandemic. Yes, our medical facilities are stretched thin. Pretty unimaginative to pretend the only possible solution is to shut down society and flatten the curve...it's ridiculous and IMPOSSIBLE in this country. The stores are still packed, we still work every day, and people still travel freely. A sane response would have been to isolate the vulnerable and let the herd ride it out. People are certainly free to stay home out of an abundance of caution. The Chinese response fit their society...they locked the place down and delivered food to their subjects. Mass hysteria here in the U.S.
 
Posts: 1967 | Registered: April 06, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by lastmanstanding:
quote:
Originally posted by Ronin1069:
quote:
Originally posted by lastmanstanding:
If Hillary were president we wouldn't even be talking about a virus this would be non existent.


You cannot really believe that.

I do. Change my mind. They would be treating this the same way they treated the swine flu when Obama was in office. Like it barely existed. Where were all the medical experts elbowing each other to get out of their way so they could get their 15 minutes in when the swine flu was killing thousands?

Case in point. The WHO declared the swine flu to be unstoppable. Unstoppable, think about that. That's real everybody is going to die from this ringing the alarm bell talk from the World Health Organization!

Now think about if the CDC or the WHO came out and said that about this current virus. It would be more than just a major headline the civil defense system would be blasting it over the tornado warning sirens in every town across the country.

This is how CNN handled the warning from WHO when they declared the Swine flu unstoppable.



It's important to consider the source(s) of your news. CNN hasn't exactly proven to be very credible, have they? When the declared that "WHO" made this assertion, were they talking about one person working there, multiples, or was it an agency wide declaration?

Earlier this week, The President was described as making his decision on continued quarantine directives based upon economic advisors' advice versus the information he's receiving from medical professionals. Not only was that BS disseminated, but Trump's "Hope" that we can resume working as of Easter was also exaggerated as to be definitive.

I trust that the President will take ALL aspects of our safety into consideration before changing his directives, and I'm content to wait and see how things are in two weeks rather than being told today, how things are going to change at that time.


"I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."
 
Posts: 10194 | Location: The Free State of Arizona | Registered: June 13, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
We went through this when Obama was in office- the "bird flu". Why didn't we fuck up the economy and put Americans out of work back then, huh? You know the answer.

Reuters article from 2010:

Swine flu has killed up to 17,000 in U.S.

Seventeen thousand American deaths from that virus. What did you do during that economic shutdown? Oh, wait- WE DIDN'T FUCKING HAVE ONE!!

Figure it out.
I'm gonna be very honest here, boss, and it might "cost" me some invisible friends, but at this point, I'm pretty fed up and really don't give a popcorn fart.

I am absolutely disappointed, saddened, and somewhat amazed at the reactive nature, hysteria, and pure fear some of the members on this board have displayed over the past 6-8 weeks since this thread was started by Pipe Smoker. I expected way more from a group of people that are comprised, by what I would regard, as very brave people.

Others, beside you and me, keep pointing back to the statistics of the H1N1 virus of 2009/2010 and “normal” influenza of 2017/2018. According to the CDC, these epidemics killed upwards of 13,000 (now 17,000 according to Para's article above) and 62,000 people, respectively. 62,000 people from "normal" Influenza in 2017/2018. SIXTY. TWO. THOUSAND.

Where was the outcry for TOTAL economic shut-down back then? Where were the media and local governments to violate our Constitutional rights and “ORDER” us into our homes? Where was the cry of mercy to HALT virtually ALL air travel and public transportation? In both instances, guess where I was?? I was flying an airplane packed with people upwards to 18 days a month, on average 4 times per day, over thousands and thousands of miles. You know what happened? Not a FRIGGIN' thing! Life went on.

It has simply ASTOUNDED me that some of you wake up each morning foaming at the mouth to try and prove the Fake News Media-Induced HYSTERIA correct. A number of you have bitten into this hook, line, sinker, rod, and reel. And the fighting chair to boot. I just shake my head. Yes...we have a couple of VERY knowledgeable health care professionals providing guidance and opinion and I appreciate that. Even still, I just have to say that some of you need to take a step back and wake the hell up. I'm really sick of all of y'alls doom and gloom when there is absolutely NOTHING to be doom and gloom about.

Play the what-if game with yourselves all day long...IDGAS. If this all blows up and half the world population dies, then I'll be the first one to put a crow on the barbee and say "Gee...you were right". That is, if I'm still here. Beyond that, I have weeds to go pull in my yard that are driving me crazy. THAT...is my dilemma for the day.

Some of y'all need to get a grip. Un-friggin-believable! Start drinking if you have to. Jeezus!!

I'm thinking about posting this on every page here on out...



[/rant]



"If you’re a leader, you lead the way. Not just on the easy ones; you take the tough ones too…” – MAJ Richard D. Winters (1918-2011), E Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil... Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel." - Isaiah 5:20,24
 
Posts: 11066 | Location: NW Houston | Registered: April 04, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Back, and
to the left
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Sometimes these typos can be a bit funny.

quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
A swab (like a Q-tip) has to be stuck extremely far up your naval cavity.

They're only gonna find a little lint in mine. Big Grin
 
Posts: 7249 | Location: Dallas | Registered: August 04, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
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2.2 million dead in the US? I'm telling you- some of these people who are making these ridiculous predictions just need to be hung. Coronavirus is not damaging this nation; hysterical, posturing, egotistical, incompetent know-it-alls with an agenda are damaging this nation.

The antidote is hemp, properly knotted and utilized.

Do any of you honestly think for one single second that such an estimate is anything more than fantasy? And we're listening to these boobs?? I don't care how many degrees they have or how well-regarded they are in their field. A prediction of 2.2. million US deaths from this bug is outrageously false.

Oh, but now, you see, we've "taken the necessary precautions", so he can now "downwardly revise" this figure. Oh, come on. You are fooling a lot of people but you are not fooling all of us. Roll Eyes
 
Posts: 107487 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
wishing we
were congress
posted Hide Post
Canada is looking at a shortage of protective equipment.

What did Trudeau do in Feb ?

https://www.breitbart.com/nati...re-facing-shortages/

Trudeua sent 16 tonnes of PPE to China in Feb

Trudeau still allows daily flights from Shanghai, Beijing, Xiaomin, Guangzhou, and other cities in China to Canada every day. Several a day. And none of them are medically screened – as in, no one has their temperature taken, no one is quarantined, to this day,”

“Trudeau gathered up all of the medical equipment in his reach – 16 tons of it, facemasks, gloves, and other protective gear… and instead of ordering more at maximum production speed, instead of starting to stockpile it and distribute it in Canada, he took our stockpile and sent it to China,”

Health officials in Ontario on Monday warned of critical shortages of the same supplies that were sent to China, putting out a call for anyone who happens to have stockpiles of masks, gowns, respirators, and other supplies to donate them.
 
Posts: 19561 | Registered: July 21, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Run Silent
Run Deep

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I think a common denominator in this thread, and maybe the world as a whole, is anxiety...

Those who thinks this is an issue...and those who don't...all feeling anxiety over the issue.

I'm thankful this thread is here to vent some of the anxiety and present the issues from both sides...and that hopefully helps us all.


_____________________________
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The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
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Posts: 6981 | Location: South East, Pa | Registered: July 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
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posted Hide Post
I'm not anxious. I'm disgusted.
 
Posts: 107487 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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^^^^
Here's an example (referencing sdy's post above)...

During H1N1 and "normal flu season", NO ONE...NO ONE...was swabbed, screened, temperature taken, isolated, quarantined, etc., etc., friggin' etc. WE ALL MADE IT!!!

Just more hysteria...

quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
I'm not anxious. I'm disgusted.
I swear...I think we're the only two (along with a select few) that have it figured out. JSMH...



"If you’re a leader, you lead the way. Not just on the easy ones; you take the tough ones too…” – MAJ Richard D. Winters (1918-2011), E Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil... Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel." - Isaiah 5:20,24
 
Posts: 11066 | Location: NW Houston | Registered: April 04, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Run Silent
Run Deep

Picture of Patriot
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
I'm not anxious. I'm disgusted.


Anxiety, disgust, anger, I suppose the feelings run quite broad...

Thanks for leaving the thread open...


_____________________________
Pledge allegiance or pack your bag!
The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
Spread my work ethic, not my wealth
 
Posts: 6981 | Location: South East, Pa | Registered: July 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
2.2 million dead in the US? I'm telling you- some of these people who are making these ridiculous predictions just need to be hung. Coronavirus is not damaging this nation; hysterical, posturing, egotistical, incompetent know-it-alls with an agenda are damaging this nation.

The antidote is hemp, properly knotted and utilized.

Do any of you honestly think for one single second that such an estimate is anything more than fantasy? And we're listening to these boobs?? I don't care how many degrees they have or how well-regarded they are in their field. A prediction of 2.2. million US deaths from this bug is outrageously false.

Oh, but now, you see, we're "taken the necessary precautions", so he can dow "downwardly revise" this figure. Oh, come on. You are fooling a lot of people but you are not fooling all of us. Roll Eyes


It's times like this, I remember the wisdom of George Carlin:
"Think about how smart the 'average' person is, then realize half the people are dumber than that"

It's easier to con or fool someone that's dumb then it is a smarter person.


______________________________________________________________________
"When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!"

“What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy
 
Posts: 8335 | Location: Attempting to keep the noise down around Midway Airport | Registered: February 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Made from a
different mold
Picture of mutedblade
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Anyone notice the talking heads saying that "we're not as in great a danger as what we thought" now that the stimulus is getting nailed down? All anyone of these asshats wanted was to make Trump spend money we don't have and to keep him occupied with something disastrous so he couldn't keep his rally's going. What a bunch of fucking idiots and too many of our own membership has even bought into the bullshit Mad


___________________________
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Posts: 2832 | Location: Lake Anna, VA | Registered: May 07, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well, well, well who would have thought?

quote:
Secretary of State Simon: Minnesota should prepare for 'a different kind of election' amid COVID-19

With the COVID-19 pandemic and a major upcoming election, Minnesota Secretary of State Steve Simon said Minnesotans should prepare for "a different kind of election."

"The current public health crisis has been a serious test for all Minnesotans. It has also been a test for our democracy," Simon said in a statement. "I've heard from many Minnesotans who wonder how, or even if, we will vote in this high-stakes election year. My answer is clear: The 2020 statewide elections should go on as scheduled."

Election alternatives Simon has been looking to include statewide include mail ballots and expanding absentee voting.

The expansion of absentee voting could include reducing the number of polling places, moving polling places to a central location and moving polling places from vulnerable locations.

"Whatever option we use, we'll do this thoughtfully and carefully," Simon said. "No one should have to choose between their health and their right to vote."


Link


"Fixed fortifications are monuments to mans stupidity" - George S. Patton
 
Posts: 8524 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: June 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Chip away the stone
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quote:
Originally posted by mrw:
When I bring up that COVID-19 is just a nasty flu with a higher death rate for elderly people hose me well here are figures that support Para:

In the USA 2017 -2018 flu cases were 45,000,000, flu deaths 61,000. Flu death rate 2017- 2018 0.1% mostly all elderly over 65. Flu is also highly contagious. So far in USA COVID-19 73,500 cases, COVID-19 deaths 1,065. COVID-19 death rate 1.4% mostly all elderly over 65. In order for COVID-19 to catch flu cases we would need 161,000 COVID-19 new cases per day every day until December 31, current new cases per day is 13,555. In order for COVID-19 to catch flu deaths we would need 215 COVID-19 new deaths per day every day until December 31, current new cases per day is 241. COVID-19 is not in the same mass killing league as influenza and will be gone in a month or so. Flu R0 is around 1.3 COVID-19 is around RO 2.0, about the same.


Those numbers don't account for the fact that social distancing, hand washing, and lockdowns have been going on for several days or weeks in many/most places where COVID-19 has started to ramp up. There has been a specific change in behavior to COVID 19 that there is not to influenza.

Also, the numbers I heard were that the transmission rate of influenza is every 1 person infected infects 1.3 other people, whereas with COVID-19 it's every 1 infects 2 to 2.5, which is significant.

That being said, I don't expect things be nearly as bad medically as what's been predicted. The predictions often don't factor in the public's reaction (distancing, hand washing), and also there's mounting evidence warm/humid air reduces spread. There will of course be tragedies and a massive strain at least on some medical facilities and workers, but I'm skeptical we'll see 6-figure deaths in the US, based on the available evidence.
 
Posts: 11597 | Registered: August 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
186,000 miles per second.
It's the law.




posted Hide Post
Recent data from the top ranked UW School of Medicine.


https://news.yahoo.com/us-viru...spite-161924116.html
 
Posts: 3251 | Registered: August 19, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Some of the people in this country and even this thread remind me of the hysterical woman in Airplane. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNkpIDBtC2c


———————————————
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14:1
 
Posts: 3963 | Location: Northeast Georgia | Registered: November 18, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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