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Certified Plane Pusher |
Why is the Lockheed T-33 considered a large aircraft when it comes to wake turbulence when it only weighs 15,000lbs? Asking for a friend. Situation awareness is defined as a continuous extraction of environmental information, integration of this information with previous knowledge to form a coherent mental picture in directing further perception and anticipating future events. Simply put, situational awareness mean knowing what is going on around you. | ||
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| Member |
Not positive, but may have to do with with wing loading and the dissipation of the jet thrust. | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process  |
I believe aircraft are rated by maximum gross take off weight. Planes having a MGTOW above 12,500 lbs are rated large. The plane itself doesn’t weigh that much, but if loaded above that, might not be able to handle maneuvers, speeds, turbulence, as certified. Not just wake turbulence, either, climbs, landing, take off distances, fuel burn, stall speeds, etc That’s plane, fuel, baggage, ammo, bombs, people, etc. The T-33 has a MGTOW of 15,061 lbs. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| Perfection is impossible, Trying is not… |
The 7360.1B corrected the T33 from a Small+ to large class. Don't forget that jet thrust adds into also... "Isn't it weird that in AMERICA, our flag & our culture offend so many people - but our benefits do not" | |||
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| Certified Plane Pusher |
In the appendix of the 7110.65, they all anything between 41,000-300,000 a large. Anything under 41,000 is considered a small. Of course they split small into small and small plus. Situation awareness is defined as a continuous extraction of environmental information, integration of this information with previous knowledge to form a coherent mental picture in directing further perception and anticipating future events. Simply put, situational awareness mean knowing what is going on around you. | |||
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| Perfection is impossible, Trying is not… |
But there are some acft that for purposes of wake turbulence an aircraft weighing between 12,500 pounds and 41,000 pounds. For Class B airspace rules, these aircraft are “large, turbine-engine-powered aircraft.” "Isn't it weird that in AMERICA, our flag & our culture offend so many people - but our benefits do not" | |||
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| Certified Plane Pusher |
Just seems odd. Situation awareness is defined as a continuous extraction of environmental information, integration of this information with previous knowledge to form a coherent mental picture in directing further perception and anticipating future events. Simply put, situational awareness mean knowing what is going on around you. | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
It’s the government! It means different thungs to controllers and pilots. I found this.
Link Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| Certified Plane Pusher |
Good read but still then doesn't make too much sense why for controllers a T-33 would fit into the Large category. Situation awareness is defined as a continuous extraction of environmental information, integration of this information with previous knowledge to form a coherent mental picture in directing further perception and anticipating future events. Simply put, situational awareness mean knowing what is going on around you. | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
How is the controller treating it? What is the difference in operating n? Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| Certified Plane Pusher |
Not much different for us between a small plus (over 12,500 but under 41,000 pounds) and a large (41k-300k). It's more of a curiosity than anything. Situation awareness is defined as a continuous extraction of environmental information, integration of this information with previous knowledge to form a coherent mental picture in directing further perception and anticipating future events. Simply put, situational awareness mean knowing what is going on around you. | |||
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| I'd rather have luck than skill any day  |
Seems it's been recategorized as medium. page 162 https://www.faa.gov/documentLi...Type_Designators.pdf | |||
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| Member |
12,500 lbs as "large" regards pilot privileges and certification. No, not all aircraft above 12,500 require a type rating. Wake turbulence is relative. The wake of a T-33 will have no impact on an 830,000 lb 747, but can have a definite effect on a 2,500 lb Cessna 172 in trail. The weight is a determining factor in setting following intervals for traffic separation. | |||
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| Ammoholic |
As far as wake turbulence, the aircraft are categorized generally by weight, but if something about the aircraft causes it to generate more wake than would be expected for its weight. For instance, from recollection I believe a 757 is treated as a heavy because though it doesn't weigh that much, in certain configurations the wake is much more than one would expect. (I can't swear to this, but I think the most trouble comes from the '57 when clean [gear and flaps up], and slow at high angles of attack). Perhaps there is something about the T33 that causes it to generate more wake than would be expected for the weight? | |||
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| Member |
The T-33 is a Category F aircraft, which cover a maximum gross takeoff weight greater than 15,500 lbs, but less than 41,000 lbs, and a wingspan less than 125'. For aircraft less than 15,500 lbs maximum takeoff weight, wingspan is irrelevant, but the T-33 remains Category F for wake turbulence purposes. See page A16: https://www.faa.gov/documentLi...der/JO_7110_659C.pdf As a category F airplane, it does not require greater intervals with traffic following behind the T-33, but the T-33 requires a greater interval for it to follow most other classes of aircraft, because the T-33 will be far more affected by wake turbulence, than it will affect other aircraft. | |||
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| Certified Plane Pusher |
Yeah no, I get The Who wake turbulence aspect but what specifically makes the T-33 have more wake? The T-38s have higher thrust but are considered a small plus. Side question for those controllers who went through wake recat, how hard was it to make the transition? At BFI we have anything from light sports to really big heavies every day. Situation awareness is defined as a continuous extraction of environmental information, integration of this information with previous knowledge to form a coherent mental picture in directing further perception and anticipating future events. Simply put, situational awareness mean knowing what is going on around you. | |||
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אַרְיֵה |
I believe that this statement is in error. Per FAR 61.31 q.v. a type rating is required for every aircraft that meets any of the following:
הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים | |||
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| Member |
The Air Tractor 802, largest production civil single engine airplane in the world, is 16,000 lbs gross (12,500 for spray operations). No type rating required (none available). Restricted category. | |||
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