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I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:


Given the number of older a/c flying, the issue of aircraft manufacturer liability came to a head in the 90's, and tort reform came about, which positively impacted the aviation industry by stimulating mfrs. to design and manufacture new models. I'm not sure how relevant a topic it is today, somewhat certainly, but perhaps aircraft age and liability would be an interesting topic to do a paper on.



This would be an interesting topic, full of all sorts of impacts. What are the liabilities and limitations, maybe find some cases, see how it has worked in practice.

There were essentially no single engine piston aircraft built in the US for 15 years or so until the new law limiting liability was enacted.

Before, if some good old boy with a current medical dug a 1948 Cessna 120 out of his uncle’s barn, got an annual signed off, then took off with weather info from the cute blonde on Channel 6, and ended up dead in a hillside, Cessna was going to be sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars over an airplane they had not seen in ~40 years and sold for $~1500. That had to change.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 48005 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lead slingin'
Parrot Head
Picture of Modern Day Savage
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:
quote:
Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:


Given the number of older a/c flying, the issue of aircraft manufacturer liability came to a head in the 90's, and tort reform came about, which positively impacted the aviation industry by stimulating mfrs. to design and manufacture new models. I'm not sure how relevant a topic it is today, somewhat certainly, but perhaps aircraft age and liability would be an interesting topic to do a paper on.



This would be an interesting topic, full of all sorts of impacts. What are the liabilities and limitations, maybe find some cases, see how it has worked in practice.

There were essentially no single engine piston aircraft built in the US for 15 years or so until the new law limiting liability was enacted.

Before, if some good old boy with a current medical dug a 1948 Cessna 120 out of his uncle’s barn, got an annual signed off, then took off with weather info from the cute blonde on Channel 6, and ended up dead in a hillside, Cessna was going to be sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars over an airplane they had not seen in ~40 years and sold for $~1500. That had to change.


I remember reading various aviation publications back in the '90s and some of the stories involved 50 year old airplane crashes, often due to other factors including pilot error, but involved a broken or worn out part, and the manufacturers were inevitably sued.

There is no doubt that tort reform had a significant and lasting impact on the aviation industry.

LDD, whatever topic you choose, I hope you'll consider sharing your paper with us.
 
Posts: 3983 | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The straw that broke the camels back for tort reform in limiting general aviation manufacturers term of liability was what shut down Piper Aircraft; one of the oldest names and establishments in heavier than air powered aviation, shut down by a frivolous law suit, and at the time, the largest jury award.

A man took off in a 1947 Super Cub, flying from the rear seat. This was illegal; the Cub is flown solo from the front seat. The man had camera equipment illegally installed in the front seat, so he flew it from the back seat. The flight was conducted on a closed runway; the airport manager had forbidden the operation, putting a large X across the runway to mark it closed, and parked a van across the runway to block use.

The man in the cub was towing a glider, and decided to take off anyway, though he was illegal and unsafe, and there was no room to take off. He struck the van, flew forward into the illegally installed camera equipment, and died of his injuries.

The man's estate sued Piper Aircraft Corporation for failure to put shoulder harnesses in the Super Cub...even though there were no such things when the Cub was built, nor were they required. After market installations were available, but the deceased had never bothered.

A jury found against Piper, a large settlement over a hundred million at the time, and it caused Piper to go bankrupt and then out of business.
 
Posts: 2516 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Certified Plane Pusher
Picture of Phantom229
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A fun topic would be the effects of privatization of ATC on general aviation.



Situation awareness is defined as a continuous extraction of environmental information, integration of this information with previous knowledge to form a coherent mental picture in directing further perception and anticipating future events. Simply put, situational awareness mean knowing what is going on around you.
 
Posts: 7621 | Location: Around Lake Tapps, Wa | Registered: September 29, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Political Cynic
Picture of nhtagmember
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that is a very interesting concept - I don't think it will pass muster here in the US but the rumblings certainly are there



Participating in a gun buy back program because you think criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbor has too many kids

"I'm only myself when I have a guitar in my hands." - George Harrison


 
Posts: 47116 | Location: Arizona | Registered: January 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There are already numerous private ATC facilities throughout the country, and many of the temporary towers that go up are private or contracted.
 
Posts: 2516 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
There are already numerous private ATC facilities throughout the country, and many of the temporary towers that go up are private or contracted.

Aren’t those merely towers in mostly uncontrolled airspace?

I have never heard of private facilities en route, tra cons, centers, etc.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 48005 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
Contract towers primarily, yes.
 
Posts: 2516 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Administrator
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
LDD, whatever topic you choose, I hope you'll consider sharing your paper with us.


The Meig's field incident (and similar) sounds like it'd have some meat to it.

We'll be reading about Bob hoover next week.

I will share the paper if I think I have anything to contribute. I don't fly so everything I dig up may be old news to you guys.
 
Posts: 17388 | Registered: August 12, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LDD:
quote:
Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
LDD, whatever topic you choose, I hope you'll consider sharing your paper with us.


The Meig's field incident (and similar) sounds like it'd have some meat to it.

We'll be reading about Bob hoover next week.

I will share the paper if I think I have anything to contribute. I don't fly so everything I dig up may be old news to you guys.


Being a paper for a law school class, I would think the emphasis would be on some legal aspect, regs, statute, Con Law issues, etc.

Digging out the authorities to review would be news to many of us.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 48005 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
My opinion, in turn, is that the Part 61 laws governing the carrying of passengers for compensation or hire will make for a nuanced and contemporary topic.

Outlining the sprit of the law requiring commercial licensure for the same, the application of such to private pilots and expense sharing, coupled with an analysis of a recent U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia case will easily stretch over 15 pages.

The appeals court decision is especially interesting given its examination of a function of the Internet in aviation law.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-...16/may/pilot/counsel
 
Posts: 304 | Location: NYC | Registered: October 25, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
On the DL
Picture of V-Tail
posted Hide Post
Medical certification might be an interesting topic.

Renewal for my medical certificate (a twelve month event for commercial pilots, six months for airline guys) was withheld by the FAA after I disclosed successful radiation treatment for prostate cancer.

I asked if any pilot had ever been incapacitated in the air due to prostate cancer.

The silence was deafening.



A mind is a terrible thing.
 
Posts: 18777 | Location: Central Florida (near Orlando) | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by air:
The space between seats and aisle width requirements is interesting. Probably not twelve pages worth of info but relevant with most flights having filled and oversold seats.

As a commercial aircraft mechanic, if I saw a pilot do a walk around then go grab some tools, I'd assist! or at least get the AMM reference for them.

The only thing more dangerous than a pilot with a screwdriver is a CFI with a screwdriver. Eek
 
Posts: 3346 | Registered: February 23, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by slosig:
quote:
Originally posted by air:
The space between seats and aisle width requirements is interesting. Probably not twelve pages worth of info but relevant with most flights having filled and oversold seats.

As a commercial aircraft mechanic, if I saw a pilot do a walk around then go grab some tools, I'd assist! or at least get the AMM reference for them.

The only thing more dangerous than a pilot with a screwdriver is a CFI with a screwdriver. Eek


I could fill volumes with stupid pilot-with-tools and stupid mechanic tricks stories.
 
Posts: 2516 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Administrator
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I am delivering my small paper tomorrow on protecting general aviation airfields from encroachment, but I need some help.

I've written the following poem as a cheeky introduction to my paper, but I have to delivery it verbally:

quote:

Massacre at Meigs Field

‘Twas the night before takeoff, when all through the field
Not a joint was squeaking, not even a wheel;
Wind socks were hung by the tower with care;
In hopes that St. Therese soon would be there;
The pilots were nestled all snug in their beds;
While visions of CAVU skies danced in their heads;
And ATC in his headset and I in my cap,
Had just signed off for a long spring nap,
When out on the field there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from my chair to see what was the matter.
Away to the windshield I flew like a flash,
Tore down the gangway and gapped at the crash
The moon on the taxiway cast all in yellow
Gave a luster of midday to beacons below,
When what to my wondering eyes did appear,
But Mayor Daley and eight huge John-Deere,
He screeched and shouted and called them by name:
Now Basher, now Crasher, Now Smasher and Imminent Domain!
On Condemnation, on Reclamation, come now Parks, and Recreation!
As I watched with my head, spinning around,
Down on the runway came Daley with a bound.
His eyes—how they twinkled! his dimples, how merry!
His cheeks were like roses, his nose like a cherry!
His droll little mouth was drawn up in a sneer,
And the eyes on his face, dark like oil smears;
With the tilt of his noggin and a wipe of his brow,
The only runway on Meigs, his dozers did plow;
X shaped trenches they dug in the cold;
For this there would be an air traffic pattern hold.
Having destroyed 55 years of aviation in a night,
Mayor Daley skipped away feeling, most definitely, in the right:
"To do this any other way would have been needlessly contentious."
Some thought his pronouncements just a wee bit pretentious.
But on the field there were stranded planes a plenty
To which City Hall responded, "that's why we left the taxiway al dente."
Nevertheless, that's how Meigs Field died in one night.
And so ended this proud chapter in flight.


TL: DR: How do I pronounce "CAVU?"

(Ceiling And Visibility Unlimited)

I asked our NTSB inspector and she didn't even recognize the term.

Maybe it's out of style so is there a better acronym to describe ideal flying conditions?

And if there is, please type it out both technically and phonetically, because I need to know how to pronounce it.

Thanks for everyone's original suggestions.
 
Posts: 17388 | Registered: August 12, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Administrator
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Phantom229:
A fun topic would be the effects of privatization of ATC on general aviation.


Someone in class actually did do this topic.

Her conclusion was that just because it worked in Europe and Canada doesn't mean it will work here (because we are so much bigger and have 10x the air traffic).

The professor, who is both a lawyer and a pilot, also said that European Gen Av pilots tend to fly low, quiet, and under the radar because every time they talk to ATC, they get charged. His conclusion was that it contributed to unsafe conditions.
 
Posts: 17388 | Registered: August 12, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
posted Hide Post
CAVU.... just like it sounds “kah vu.”




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 48005 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Dances With
Tornados
posted Hide Post
Referencing the above threads about lawsuits, I seem to recall frivolous lawsuits of someone installing new aftermarket seats in an old aircraft. Something goes wrong with the seats, crash burn and die, sue the aircraft manufacturer and win a huge lawsuit. Despicable.
 
Posts: 7418 | Registered: October 26, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Sailor1911
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LDD:
I am delivering my small paper tomorrow on protecting general aviation airfields from encroachment, but I need some help.

I've written the following poem as a cheeky introduction to my paper, but I have to delivery it verbally:

quote:

Massacre at Meigs Field

‘Twas the night before takeoff, when all through the field
Not a joint was squeaking, not even a wheel;
Wind socks were hung by the tower with care;
In hopes that St. Therese soon would be there;
The pilots were nestled all snug in their beds;
While visions of CAVU skies danced in their heads;
And ATC in his headset and I in my cap,
Had just signed off for a long spring nap,
When out on the field there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from my chair to see what was the matter.
Away to the windshield I flew like a flash,
Tore down the gangway and gapped at the crash
The moon on the taxiway cast all in yellow
Gave a luster of midday to beacons below,
When what to my wondering eyes did appear,
But Mayor Daley and eight huge John-Deere,
He screeched and shouted and called them by name:
Now Basher, now Crasher, Now Smasher and Imminent Domain!
On Condemnation, on Reclamation, come now Parks, and Recreation!
As I watched with my head, spinning around,
Down on the runway came Daley with a bound.
His eyes—how they twinkled! his dimples, how merry!
His cheeks were like roses, his nose like a cherry!
His droll little mouth was drawn up in a sneer,
And the eyes on his face, dark like oil smears;
With the tilt of his noggin and a wipe of his brow,
The only runway on Meigs, his dozers did plow;
X shaped trenches they dug in the cold;
For this there would be an air traffic pattern hold.
Having destroyed 55 years of aviation in a night,
Mayor Daley skipped away feeling, most definitely, in the right:
"To do this any other way would have been needlessly contentious."
Some thought his pronouncements just a wee bit pretentious.
But on the field there were stranded planes a plenty
To which City Hall responded, "that's why we left the taxiway al dente."
Nevertheless, that's how Meigs Field died in one night.
And so ended this proud chapter in flight.


TL: DR: How do I pronounce "CAVU?"

(Ceiling And Visibility Unlimited)

I asked our NTSB inspector and she didn't even recognize the term.

Maybe it's out of style so is there a better acronym to describe ideal flying conditions?

And if there is, please type it out both technically and phonetically, because I need to know how to pronounce it.

Thanks for everyone's original suggestions.


Excellent!

Kay Voo


------------------------------
Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark.

“If in winning a race, you lose the respect of your fellow competitors, then you have won nothing” - Paul Elvstrom "The Great Dane" 1928 - 2016
 
Posts: 2614 | Location: Wichita, Kansas | Registered: March 27, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
It's not easy being me
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:
CAVU.... just like it sounds “kah vu.”



In Tennessee (before all these darn yankees moved here) it would be KaaaVuuu. Wink Hahahaha


_______________________________________
Flammable, Inflammable, or Nonflammable.......
Hell, either it Flams or it doesn't!! (George Carlin)
 
Posts: 2219 | Location: Middle TN | Registered: March 22, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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