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| Staring back from the abyss  |
This is what kills it for me, and kills it for the insurance companies and ultimately the taxpayer. We/they cannot afford to cover this, and I say this as someone with a pre-existing condition. I want government completely out of the PRIVATE INDUSTRY of healthcare. Those of us in the business are no different than plumbers, electrician, and mechanics. We fix shit. That's it. Nowhere and no-how do you have a RIGHT to have your shit fixed if you can't pay for it. Not your leaky toilet, your shorted out light switch, your fouled up carburator, or your broken ankle. If all of this crap keeps up, where does it stop? Is the government soon going to require insurance for plumbing and mechanic work? I'm hoping that this version of a "repeal" will be defeated. ________________________________________________________ "Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton. | |||
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Chip away the stone |
I'd like to know where I can get auto insurance that covers pre-existing conditions. Would also be good to have handy the name of home insurers that have fire and flood policies that cover pre-existing conditions, too. | |||
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Lighten up and laugh |
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| Member |
Attempted to call every Ohio Congress Person today to urge them to vote against the AHCA. All of the Dems are on board as we as several Republicans (Jim Jordan most notably). Will call the others that I could not get through to in the morning. Then I will call my Senators. I hope this thing goes down in flames. Repeal ObamaCare and replace piecemeal or let it die on the vine. The "Boz" | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
The House bill currently under consideration and that may come to the floor of the House for a vote on March 23, 2017, is not a repeal of Obamacare. Paul Ryan continues to say the House is going to be “repealing and replacing Obamacare” and that simply is not true. The Affordable Care Act is amended under the current legislation, but it is not repealed. The bill the House is trying to pass has some more conservative members of Congress upset and with good reason. Nearly every day since Barack Obama signed the ACA into law, Republicans have promised its repeal. Mike Lee was on Fox News and slammed the bill and the charade that it repeals Obamacare. Watch: What we’ve been promising for seven years is that if Republicans were given the chance to govern we would repeal Obamacare root and branch that’s not what this bill does and that’s what we need to do and that’s why I’m holding out for a vote that actually fulfills that promise. For the last four years, people like Mike Lee, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, members of the House Freedom Caucus have been on the receiving end of finger-wagging lectures. “We can’t repeal Obamacare until we have a congressional majority and the White House.” So what’s the problem? They’ve run out of excuses. What’s next? Are they going to argue Obamacare cannot be repealed without a 60 vote majority in the Senate? "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Thank you Very little  |
Yes that is the argument, repealing obozo's failed unaffordable care act is in fact simply done, however replacing it will require 60 votes to get past cloture, and if the R nuke that vote, they own the replacement. The political risks are high on both sides, regardless of the need to do something everyone is hedging, at least a few R in congress have the balls to stand up for it's repeal.. | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
Exactly. They don't want to repeal it because they will be called meanies by the lamestream Obamedia for "taking away" people's health insurance. Tough. Do it. AFTER repeal they can try to cobble together 60 votes for "replace" which ought not include mandates, guarantee issue or community rating. In other words, insurance ought to be based on risk. The insurer accepts the risk based on a mutually agreeable premium. No one is forced to offer it or to take it. Competition returns to the market place. Anything else might be called pre-paid medical or third party payment but it's very expensive and it's not insurance. "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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Political Cynic |
just repeal it outright don't offer a replacement ever its NOT the fed's job to provide healthcare its the fed's job to stay out of the way [B] Against ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC | |||
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Don't Panic |
Instead of a clean repeal, these chuckleheads have made a complex witches brew that they will now own. Well, I say that, and if it crashes and burns, of course they will own it. But, because they did not do a clean repeal, if by any chance it does work the media - you know, those impartial arbiters with no axes to grind  - will give the kudos to the prior Resident.In other words, they've turned this into a no-win proposition. Heads the Republicans lose, tails "Obamacare" wins. They couldn't repeal it in 2009-2016 because they needed more political power. Gave them the House. Then the Senate. Then the White House. Turns out what they needed more of was brainpower.  | |||
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| Thank you Very little |
I don't disagree, however the same lamestream obaedia will turn on any R bill and label it ryancare or trumpcare, doing this wrong can shift the public focus to the wrong party, and then you end up responsible for all the failures. | |||
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| Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
^^^ If Trump thinks that way, then he's already lost and lost the same way that Republicans have been losing for decades. He was hired for his balls, was he not? Worse, Trump will spend all of his time second-guessing himself in light of what he imagines the media might say, which is a classic recipe for never getting a damned thing done. It's leadership time, kids. Give 'em something better, whether the media and Chuckles Schumer want it or not, and let's see what the people say once they get what they asked for. | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
 That picture reminds me of something I've seen before... what could it be? oh... yes, that's right:  "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
Do you guys want to continue this discussion, or not? I've told you already- next time this thread is locked, this subject is off the table permanently in this forum. If that's what you want, keep up with the ridiculous declarations. If you want to never again be able to discuss any gov't healthcare laws in this forum, just keep it up. | |||
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| Oh stewardess, I speak jive.  |
^ "The pile of bullshit I'm feeding you is THIS big!" (photo, not Para's comment) | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
It looks like there will be a "delay" in the vote... it won't be tonight. Ryan doesn't have the votes. House Obamacare repeal vote will not take place Thursday: Sources http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/23...ource-tells-nbc.html "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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Ammoholic |
So I got this email from the POS Kaine. He says that under the new plan they will be allowed to charge up to five times the cost for a elderly person as they do for a young. My God! The horror! You mean they will be allowed to semi-underwrite the policies and not have completely artificial pricing? I don't want to pay for my neighbor being old. It's not my fault, I don't think I should supplement their lifestyle, in all likelihood that older person has much more assets and income than I do, so why should the young/poor supplement the older population that have had time to accumulate wealth? Next gem is that he says it will raise premium costs on a 64 year old woman by $3,200 a month. I am just going to call bullshit on that one. No way anything in the plan as I know it would increase a persons premium by $38,000 dollars a year. What the fuck is he smoking? Also says that it give tax cuts to the rich at the expense of the middle class. Nope again. It actually give subsidies to the middle class you freaking moron.
ETA: He also tweeted the same asinine premium increase on his twitter. Whatever you do, DO NOT go to his twitter page, you will want to punch your computer screen.  This message has been edited. Last edited by: Skins2881, Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
"Its a binary choice." ~ Paul Ryan. OK then... "No." Couple of questions/thoughts: 1. Isn't it better to just do a full and clean repeal before attempting any fix? Consider: With no federal health care law existing -- and apparently that is too horrible a notion for even many Republicans to contemplate now -- that ups the pressure on Democrats to get on board with a replacement to be passed later. If they filibuster and block that later replacement, they cannot execute their plan -- blame all of health care problems on Republicans, as they always have -- as cleanly as they'd like. Doesn't a full repeal put the GOP in a much better bargaining position for any later health care moves? 2. Doesn't starting from zero get you to where you want to be faster? Some houses cannot be repaired. They have to be razed to the foundation. Then, the foundation needs to be jackhammered into nothingness. Then the dirt that surrounded the foundation has to be dug out, set inside a large weighted steel globe filled with air, dropped to the bottom of the ocean, and then set on fire at the bottom of the ocean. Then you build a proper house. You do not attempt to patch up and add additions on to a crumbling, rickety house loaded with termites, asbestos, and mold-borne AIDS. 3. There is also that tiny concern about honoring promises you've made for eight long years too, if that even matters at all? http://ace.mu.nu/archives/368986.php "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Knows too little about too much  |
Therein lies the biggest problem. They mouthed for 7 years and did not prepare. Now, they are behind the eight ball and throwing shit to see what sticks. Hell, even if they had prepared for seven years, they would have still fucked it up. Thus, the nature of big government. Government is never a solution , just a different problem. Hopefully Trump will succeed in giving us less government. Repeal the damn "obomination" and let the chips fall where they may. RMD TL Davis: “The Second Amendment is special, not because it protects guns, but because its violation signals a government with the intention to oppress its people…” Remember: After the first one, the rest are free. | |||
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Told cops where to go for over 29 years… |
I can understand the issues/concerns about the pre-existing conditions. Health care and a pre-existing condition such as diabetes is not quite the same as car insurance and pre-existing condition of a dent in the fender. Get you fender repaired, then get the insurance at going rate. Can't just fix the diabetes or cancer and be back to stock condition to enter the market. The far left wants carte blanch coverage from day one, the far right wants absolute capitalism, no gubbermint meddling. Obamacare created a new entitlement and the hard truth, regardless of what everyone would like to believe is that taking away an entitlement once granted is political suicide. I suppose the R's could do it but they would quickly hand all branches back to the D's who in no time would restore everything and even give away more of the store. So how about someone actually consider compromise to reach something agreeable, if not delicious, to both sides? Fix the problems, address the legitimate concerns and actually improve the process. Complex problems can't be fixed with simple solutions. Address the coverage issues, address the competition issues, address the regulation issues, and the the malpractice/tort reform issues. Those with pre-existing conditions get coverage albeit at an increased (but affordable) cost. Maybe some what higher premiums to start and coverage for the condition is limited at first, say at a reduced rate and phasing up over time (2-5 years) to be fully covered as if it was not pre-existing. If I come into a policy with diabetes there is a definite cost. If I develop diabetes after being cover for a period, they cover the condition so essentially let those with a pre-existing condition "catch up" and get it covered as if they developed it down the road. Give choice of levels of care, offer catastrophic/major condition coverage but routine care be out of pocket for those who want to keep costs down. Folks who can afford more complete coverage with preventative included, can choose to pay more. For those extreme cases, bring in some sort of enhanced deduction for medical expenses with a sliding scale based on income level or certain diseases. I can now deduct medical in excess of 2% of my gross income IF I am am able to do Schedule A. What about letting folks below a certain income level deduct all medical expenses, regardless of whether they use the standard deduction or not, similar to how those of us in states without state income tax are allowed to deduct our sales taxes paid even if we file 1040A? I think the only hope for real reform is a full repeal and a comprehensive plan to address the various drivers as well as human factors. So long as either side focuses solely on the one or two hot button topics important to their base, we are destined to waste time and money with nothing to show for the efforts. What part of "...Shall not be infringed" don't you understand???  | |||
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Member |
A little arm twisting going on ? Ryan-aligned super PAC pulls support from GOP member who opposes healthcare bill. The Congressional Leadership Fund (CLF), a super PAC aligned with Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) announced on Thursday that it is pulling its support from GOP Rep. David Young (Iowa), who is opposing the ObamaCare repeal bill. The CLF is closing down an office in Young’s Des Moines-area district, The Wall Street Journal first reported. The super PAC had been sending staffers to help out Young almost two years before his reelection race in 2018. Young announced on Wednesday that he woudn't support the House GOP’s bill in its current form. “CLF will be terminating our lease because David Young has decided not to support President Trump and House leadership,” CLF executive director Corry Bliss said, according to the Journal. “At this time the Congressional Leadership Fund has no plans to spend any money for David Young this cycle but we wish him the best of luck.” Young has been a top Democratic target since his election in 2014, though he won reelection in 2016 by a sizable margin. The political action committee poured nearly $2 million into the Iowa Republican’s 2016 reelection race. American Action Network, a sister organization of the CLF, has had a sustained ad campaign to urge GOP members to support the bill that has been pushed by President Trump’s team as well as Ryan and other House leaders. The American Health Care Act has divided Republicans, and Trump and House GOP leadership were scrambling hours before a planned floor vote to make negotiations and seek to sway conservatives who opposed to the bill. But the Thursday vote has now been postponed as efforts to woo conservatives may be turning away moderates. "This only applies to Iowa's 3rd congressional district,” a CLF spokeswoman told The Hill. “CLF, like any organization, analyzes and makes spending decisions on a daily basis and will continue to do so over the next two years http://thehill.com/homenews/ca...r-who-opposes-repeal | |||
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