quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

quote:

Originally posted by FRANKT:
Doomed right out of the gate, IMHO.
Where is state lines?
Where is co-op-type group purchasing?
Drug prices?
Nope, don't confuse motion with action.

The idea that being able to cross State lines will foster lower prices thru competition is FALSE. Group Plans cross State lines every day and have in the 35 years I was in the insurance business. Anyone think they haven't had huge increases over the years?

Healthcare is delivered locally. A hospital system, with all its Docs etc, in Louisville, KY does not compete with a system in Hartford, CT. Insurance premiums are driven by cost of claims. Any given procedure has a different cost in Louisville versus Hartford. Detroit versus Ft. Wayne.

Further, insurance companies need to build provider networks in all these new areas. Doesn't happen overnight, isn't free.

They are rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

So much missinformation out there and in this thread.

Let's address Association business, i.e. forming new pools.

There are huge problems. While Rand Paul may honestly believe "allowing it" is a solution, he is 100% wrong.

Associations formed solely for the purpose of buying insurance violate State Laws in many places. A Federal Law will be challenged.

Insurance companies also RUN away from them because they are impossible to price as start ups. You need 30 months of claims data but there is none to open the doors. Finally, there is the problem of Adverse Selection. It is as bad or worse than the original ACA.

Keep in mind we only have Obamacare due to two accidents:

1) Too many Democrats in power (temporarily), and
2) a Supreme Court that (temporarily) had 5 people who magically transformed an unConstitutional purchase mandate written into the statues into a tax that it wasn't.

Oddly enough, those two events, creating/validating Obamacare, are the primary reasons the Democrats don't have power now, and why the Supremes got a shot of synapses this year and will get more when/as vacancies open.

So - note to the braintrust which is the Republican leadership in DC:

Repeal. Then **********maybe************ replace. Or not. If you do nothing, the same energy that dumped Brand X will focus on Brand Y.

2009 was no horrorshow, and was/is lightyears ahead of the nonsense we are currently stuck with, as well as many of its aspects carried along inside the 'replace' proposals.

Kids' not able to remain on your plan till 26? Well, at least now there are lots of jobs out there. And, they are the young healthies (in aggregate) that are expected to not buy insurance unless forced anyway.

"Preexisting conditions"? Well, who should pay the most - the people that consume the most, or are we hoping that Big Brother will shake down everyone else at gunpoint to subsidize them?

The poor? They get/got handled elsewhere - Medicaid, private charity, discounts/bill writeoffs by medical providers, etc. Not to mention the 45,533 (rough estimate) other ways the Feds, states and local governments provide for the under-earning, which frees up what money they do have for medical care if they choose.

quote:

note to the braintrust which is the Republican leadership in DC:

Repeal. Then **********maybe************ replace. Or not. If you do nothing, the same energy that dumped Brand X will focus on Brand Y.

Senate GOP - We were for it (repeal,) before we were against it. or We were for it, but really didn't mean it.

UPDATE: Senate Rejects 'Plan A' Obamacare Replacement, 'Clean Repeal' Also Fails

The Senate on Wednesday rejected an amendment to gut Obamacare without a replacement ready to go, a bill identical to a 2015 measure that passed Congress.

Senators voted 45-55 on the measure, with seven Republicans and all Democrats voting no. The Republicans voting no were Sens. Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia, Susan Collins of Maine, Dick Heller of Nevada, John McCain of Arizona, Rob Portman of Ohio, Lamar Alexander of Tennessee and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska. Only Collins voted against the measure in 2015..

The Senate vote is part of a larger debate on how to repeal and replace Obamacare. The bill was expected to fail, as many Republican senators were uncomfortable with voting on repeal without an immediate replacement.

The bill is identical to a 2015 measure that passed Congress that would gut Obamacare's taxes and mandates but leave in place insurer regulations. The bill would have let Obamacare stay in place for two years while a replacement was crafted. Former President Barack Obama vetoed the legislation in 2015.

All we have gone through for the last 8 years, and seven REP senators stop a REPEAL of obamacare.

What worthless POS:

Collins
Heller
Capito
Murkowski
Alexander
McCain
Portman

Well, Senators have been forced onto the record.

There are other ideas underway.

There is a leadership problem in getting the Republicans to work as a team. Although Mitch McConnell can usually sell off pork to get things through, that model is not good enough on this issue.

Paul Ryan still doesn't lead in the House and hasn't brought the House together.

At some point, we must look to the next elections to drive the change that is needed in Washington.

Will a tougher executive branch yield more results? It remains to be seen. Alas, President Trump's boldness got him elected yet the Republicans have not rallied around.

I'm often reminded of the Renaissance Faire's fencing booth that calls would-be lesson-takers to,"Remedy Cowardice!"

A bold and fearless self-confidence is in stark contrast to McCain's call to business as usual. The voters do not want business as usual.

That the Senate now delivers no success on such a clearly voted policy reconfirms that we need different representatives or, at least, ones that wise up.

There is a reason Congress has such a low approval rating.

quote:

Murkowski

"Let me tell you, somebody needs to go over there to that Senate and snatch a knot in their ass,"
Rep. Buddy Carter, R-Ga.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
All we have gone through for the last 8 years, and seven REP senators stop a REPEAL of obamacare.

What worthless POS:

Collins
Heller
Capito
Murkowski
Alexander
McCain
Portman

All except Collins voted for repeal previously when they knew Obama would veto. Cowards. Absolute gutless cowards. Freakin' phonies. If you had any, I'd pray for you all to choke on your shame.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
All we have gone through for the last 8 years, and seven REP senators stop a REPEAL of obamacare.

What worthless POS:

Collins
Heller
Capito
Murkowski
Alexander
McCain
Portman

All except Collins voted for repeal previously when they knew Obama would veto. Cowards. Absolute gutless cowards. Freakin' phonies. If you had any, I'd pray for you all to choke on your shame.

That's why I have zero problems with saying that these scums need to FOAD.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
All we have gone through for the last 8 years, and seven REP senators stop a REPEAL of obamacare.

What worthless POS:

Collins
Heller
Capito
Murkowski
Alexander
McCain
Portman

All except Collins voted for repeal previously when they knew Obama would veto. Cowards. Absolute gutless cowards. Freakin' phonies. If you had any, I'd pray for you all to choke on your shame.

I foresee primary challenges for the lot of them. That said, we are stuck with most of this lot for a good long time.

2018
Heller

2020
Collins
Capito
Alexander

2022
Murkowski
Portman
McCain (doubtful he will serve that long - health issues)

Is tar and feather still legal?

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
Is tar and feather still legal?

It depends on what the meaning of Is is...



ERIC CANTOR: REPUBLICAN MESSAGE WAS CHARADE...
Eric Cantor: “If You’ve Got That Anger Working for You, You’re Gonna Let It Be”

Let’s back up a moment. Remember the summer of 2013, when the “Defund Obamacare Tour” drove the news cycle all through Congress’s August recess? The town halls organized by the political arm of the Heritage Foundation enlivened the base and furthered what had been the GOP’s core message since 2010—that Obamacare was bad and, if Americans helped Republicans hold both chambers, it could be repealed.

Cantor helped create that perception. Earlier that summer—after many failed attempts over the years to shred the law piecemeal—Cantor promised colleagues that the House would vote on a “full repeal.” But even after it did, the measure was dead on arrival in the Democratic-controlled Senate. Cantor—in Congress 13 years and, fairly or unfairly, once thought to be above electoral reproach—paid the price. His 2014 avenger, now-congressman David Brat, bludgeoned him for being soft on Obamacare, among other things. But the failure to make a dent in the law landed a bigger blow on the party. After seven years of pledging they could dismantle Obamacare, if only they had control of Congress and the White House, Republicans—at last in charge of both—have faced deep divisions over a replacement.

Asked if he feels partly responsible for their current predicament, Cantor is unequivocal. “Oh,” he says, “100 percent.”

He goes further: “To give the impression that if Republicans were in control of the House and Senate, that we could do that when Obama was still in office . . . .” His voice trails off and he shakes his head. “I never believed it.”

He says he wasn’t the only one aware of the charade: “We sort of all got what was going on, that there was this disconnect in terms of communication, because no one wanted to take the time out in the general public to even think about ‘Wait a minute—that can’t happen.’ ” But, he adds, “if you’ve got that anger working for you, you’re gonna let it be.”

It’s a stunning admission from a former member of the party leadership—that the linchpin of GOP electoral strategy for the better part of a decade was a fantasy, a flame continually fanned solely because, when it came to midterm elections, it worked. (Barring, of course, his own.)

https://www.washingtonian.com/...macare-donald-trump/

a bit more gas on the fire

http://www.breitbart.com/big-g...-favor-of-obamacare/

Sens. Dean Heller (R-NV), Shelley Moore Capito (R-WV), John McCain (R-AZ), Lamar Alexander (R-TN), Lisa Murkowski (R-AK), Rob Portman (R-OH), and Susan Collins (R-ME) voted against Sen. Paul’s clean Obamacare repeal bill. All of these senators except for Sen. Collins voted to rescind Obamacare in 2015.

Not only have these six senators voted to repeal Obamacare, they publicly pledged to do so on the campaign trail and in the halls of the Senate. Here are six times these senators promised to repeal Obamacare:

Lamar Alexander, “The wisest course is to repeal Obamacare and replace it step by step with solutions that lower health care costs.”

Shelley Moore Capito, “I have consistently voted to repeal and replace this disastrous health care law, and I am glad that a repeal bill will finally reach the president’s desk.”

Dean Heller,“This DC bureaucrat-driven healthcare system will only result in limited health care choices and higher costs for Nevadans.”

Lisa Murkowski, “This law is not affordable for anyone in Alaska. That is why I will support the bill that repeals the ACA and wipes out its harmful impacts. I can’t watch premiums for Alaskans shoot up by 30 percent or more each year, see businesses artificially constrained, or see the quality of public education decline.”

John McCain, “It is clear that any serious attempt to improve our health care system must begin with a full repeal and replacement of Obamacare, and I will continue fighting on behalf of the people of Arizona to achieve it.”

Rob Portman, “I’m for repealing this broken law and replacing it with something better that gives patients more choice, decreases costs and increases access to quality, affordable care.”

FreedomWorks President Adam Brandon called out the Senate’s six hypocrites. Brandon charged, “Our activists have fought for the better part of a decade, led on by campaign promises and actual votes to repeal Obamacare, to get Republican majorities in the House and Senate, as well as a Republican in the White House.

Sens. Dean Heller, Lisa Murkowski, John McCain, Rob Portman, Shelley Moore Capito, and Lamar Alexander each voted for the very same bill in 2015.

We now know that these six senators are Obamacare repeal frauds. Even though we’re still wondering if Sen. Susan Collins is in the right party, at least she was consistent with her vote.”

Tea Party Patriots President Jenny Beth Martin said that the seven senators who voted against the clean Obamacare bill broke the biggest political promise in history . She said:

Today, seven Republican Senators betrayed their constituents and the American people by breaking what is arguably the biggest political promise in modern American politics, and refusing to vote to repeal Obamacare.

Lying fucking cowards, I hope they all reap the whirlwind!!!

these bastards still think that the government has a role in healthcare

they just don't get it...

fucking McLame...Collins and Murkowski

time to make them pay for their behavior

these people need to remember they are NOT our leaders, they are our representatives

thats all they are - they're supposed to represent us and they're not doing it

There is no Republican plan.
There are 50 different Senators ideas plus the President's and everybody wants it 100% their way or no deal.
Then there's the Democrat plan which is to lay back and let the Republicans make fools of themselves.
So far, the Democrats are making the most progress in their goal.

quote:

So far, the Democrats are making the most progress in their goal.

Yep, you nailed it.
Momentum is on the side of Collins, Capito, Murkowski, McCain and the rest of the Democrats who seem to think they benefit from maintaining the status quo.

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
All we have gone through for the last 8 years, and seven REP senators stop a REPEAL of obamacare.

What worthless POS:

Collins
Heller
Capito
Murkowski
Alexander
McCain
Portman

pull all of these folks from their committee assignments.

Republicans put single payer up for a senate vote. Intent was to force DEMs hands.

Result: defeated 57 to 0.

Donnelly, Heitkamp, King, Manchin, Nelson, Tester only Dem NO votes

(most (all ?) up for election in 2018)

Rest of DEMs voted "present"

Not one DEM voted for it

With McCain getting to dramatically do the thing he loves most - stabbing the GOP in the back - repeal of Obamacare is officially dead for now, as McConnell couldn't get 50 votes for even a non-repeal.

I am going to call this - the promise to repeal Obamacare - the biggest political lie in history - bigger than "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan." For years, the GOP accumulated power almost exclusively on this single issue. They voted for it when they knew it wouldn't become law....and then refused to vote for it when it would matter. It's treachery and deceit. It's cowardice. It is contempt for the voters that gave them their jobs.

In a perfect world, there would be consequences, and they would be drastic. But what are we going to do...start voting for Democrats? Stay home and let the Democrats win by forfeit?

The only real option is a whole bunch of new primary challenges in 2018 and beyond. It's an uphill battle, but what is the choice?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ChicagoSigMan,