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Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
posted Hide Post
What happened to 60 votes?
Now they can't even get 50?
C'mon... 17% of the people approve of this wonderful bill... Roll Eyes

McConnell is already pressed for votes as two Republicans, Susan Collins and Rand Paul, have said they will not vote for the bill, and Mike Lee has yet to decided if he will support it or not. The best case scenario for the Majority Leader, if McCain were there, is a 50-50 vote. Without McCain, he cannot get the bill passed.

McConnell delays health care vote because of McCain surgery

McCain underwent surgery on Friday to remove a blood clot from above his eye. He is not expected back in his Washington office next week. McConnell had no choice but to seek a delay because without McCain's vote, it is likely the bill would not receive the 50 votes necessary for passage.

The next surgery that John McCain has should be to remove him from office.


"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 12930 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of cne32507
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FYI: Planned Parenthood and AARP are spending millions targeting Nevada Senator Dean Heller and others. I see the ads out of Reno every time I turn on on the telly. The hell with AARP.

AARP ad

PPH ad Reno



 
Posts: 1323 | Location: CTZ Florida | Registered: February 03, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
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^^^ There's a long line of "moderate" senators open to that line of attack....
They want to keep protections for those with pre-existing conditions, and some are concerned about the phaseout of federal funding for the Medicaid expansion....

Now they can't even get 50?
Senate leadership unveiled its latest health care bill and it’s simply … terrible. Apparently, the GOPe loved Obamacare this whole time....

They don't have the votes...
The bill may not have enough votes to even get to the floor. Too bad, so sad. Try repeal, you idiots!

Paul: I don't think McConnell has votes to pass healthcare bill now

Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) on Sunday said he doesn't think Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) has the votes to pass the Senate GOP's healthcare bill.

"I don't think right now he does," Paul, a vocal critic of the Senate's healthcare plan, said on "Fox News Sunday."

Paul said the real problem is that Republicans won elections on their promises to repeal ObamaCare.

"But this bill keeps most of the ObamaCare taxes, keeps most of the regulations, keeps most of the subsidies," he said. "And creates something that Republicans have never been for, and that's a giant insurance bailout superfund."

Paul then again floated the idea of first repealing and later replacing ObamaCare. There is significant resistance to that idea among other senators, including Republicans, although the White House has indicated President Trump is open to it.

"What I've suggested to the president ... if this comes to an impasse, I think if the president jumps into the fray and says 'Look guys, you promised to repeal it, let's just repeal what we can agree to,'" Paul said.

"And then we can continue to try to fix, replace or whatever has to happen afterwards," he continued.

Republicans should try to repeal as many of the taxes, regulations and mandates as possible, Paul said.

Paul was later pressed on whether he would rather keep ObamaCare than pass the current GOP's healthcare legislation.

Paul said he thinks the current system is "terrible."

"The death spiral of ObamaCare is unwinding the whole system, and it will continue to unwind, but I don't think Republicans should put their name on this key part of ObamaCare," Paul said.

"And then we're going to be blamed for the rest of the unwinding of ObamaCare. It's a really bad political strategy and it's not going to fix the problem."

McConnell on Saturday announced Senate consideration of the healthcare legislation would be delayed while Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) recovers from surgery.

http://thehill.com/policy/heal...hcare-bill-right-now


"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 12930 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of bigdeal
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It must really be embarrassing to be referred to as a male Repub congressman or senator and know you don't have the balls or backbone to support that reference. Only 'they' don't seem to recognize what an incredible failure they are.

Start updating your list of names of the human filth who need to be primaried out of office in 2018 and beyond. The rule must become..."If you don't deliver, you're gone. Period"


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 25174 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Political Cynic
Picture of nhtagmember
posted Hide Post
quote:
July 15, 2017
Why did we elect a Republican Congress?
By J. Marsolo


I ask myself this several times a day, and the more I ask, the more disgusted I get

they call this the "Consumer Freedom Amendment" which is an outright lie and yet another deception of the unsuspecting American people

if they want to pass a bill called 'Consumer Freedom' it should be a full repeal with the stipulation that the federal government is permanently prohibited from getting involved in private healthcare

we've all seen how well they provide healthcare for the veterans...and they want to treat the rest of us the same way

also, if they were serious, they would give up their own health care and be forced to buy whatever is available on the open market



Peace is not the absence of conflict, but rather when you have your foot firmly on the enemies neck

"I'm only myself when I have a guitar in my hands." - George Harrison


 
Posts: 45121 | Location: Arizona | Registered: January 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
Very disappointed.

Why does it have to be "repeal and replace"?

I'd be happy with a straight repeal.

Maybe Trump was right from the beginning: just let Obama Care crater and die on its own.
 
Posts: 402 | Location: Fort Worth, TX | Registered: February 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Don't Panic
Picture of joel9507
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Out West:
Very disappointed.

Why does it have to be "repeal and replace"?

I'd be happy with a straight repeal.

Maybe Trump was right from the beginning: just let Obama Care crater and die on its own.

Yep. It is not as though US health care in 2010 was imploding.

Obamacare is 100% Democrat-owned and cratering. Anything else - and I mean anything - would be 100% owned by Republicans. Repeal? 100% owned by Republicans. Tweak? 100% owned by Republicans.

Factor in the fact that zero of the Republican electorate was chanting "Tweak Obamacare" last election.

If you were a Republican strategist with two or more working synapses, which would you want to defend in 2018? Would you

A) want to defend the repercussions of doing exactly what was promised in 2016 and getting that base on your side, or

B) muddy the waters, and piss off the 2016 base by flailing, trying to appeal to people who will never, never, vote for you?

Seems fairly obvious.
 
Posts: 11597 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: October 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Skins2881
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by chellim1:
^^^ There's a long line of "moderate" senators open to that line of attack....
They want to keep protections for those with pre-existing conditions, and some are concerned about the phaseout of federal funding for the Medicaid expansion....

Now they can't even get 50?
Senate leadership unveiled its latest health care bill and it’s simply … terrible. Apparently, the GOPe loved Obamacare this whole time....

They don't have the votes...
The bill may not have enough votes to even get to the floor. Too bad, so sad. Try repeal, you idiots!

Paul: I don't think McConnell has votes to pass healthcare bill now

Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) on Sunday said he doesn't think Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) has the votes to pass the Senate GOP's healthcare bill.

"I don't think right now he does," Paul, a vocal critic of the Senate's healthcare plan, said on "Fox News Sunday."

Paul said the real problem is that Republicans won elections on their promises to repeal ObamaCare.

"But this bill keeps most of the ObamaCare taxes, keeps most of the regulations, keeps most of the subsidies," he said. "And creates something that Republicans have never been for, and that's a giant insurance bailout superfund."

Paul then again floated the idea of first repealing and later replacing ObamaCare. There is significant resistance to that idea among other senators, including Republicans, although the White House has indicated President Trump is open to it.

"What I've suggested to the president ... if this comes to an impasse, I think if the president jumps into the fray and says 'Look guys, you promised to repeal it, let's just repeal what we can agree to,'" Paul said.

"And then we can continue to try to fix, replace or whatever has to happen afterwards," he continued.

Republicans should try to repeal as many of the taxes, regulations and mandates as possible, Paul said.

Paul was later pressed on whether he would rather keep ObamaCare than pass the current GOP's healthcare legislation.

Paul said he thinks the current system is "terrible."

"The death spiral of ObamaCare is unwinding the whole system, and it will continue to unwind, but I don't think Republicans should put their name on this key part of ObamaCare," Paul said.

"And then we're going to be blamed for the rest of the unwinding of ObamaCare. It's a really bad political strategy and it's not going to fix the problem."

McConnell on Saturday announced Senate consideration of the healthcare legislation would be delayed while Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) recovers from surgery.

http://thehill.com/policy/heal...hcare-bill-right-now


I've stayed out of this thread because it (situation, not thread) has pissed me off so much I didn't want to get it locked.

F%# everyone of them that campaigned on or otherwise promised repeal.

I don't want the new RepubCare bill to pass, I don't even want it voted on. At this point I rather let the whole system implode on itself then let markets come up with an array of products that meet consumer demands. Want a bare bones plan, here you go. Want a Cadillac plan here you go. Want to self insure for anything under $25,000, we can do that too.

American businesses and capitalism has always been able to determine consumer demands and cater a product to meet those demands. Why don't we give capitalism a try in this situation? Why must the fed.gov even be involved?

The idea that young have to pay for old and the healthy have to pay for the sick is straight up socialist. Sorry you have diabetes, you have to pay more, it sucks, deal with it. Sorry your old, you use more care therefore your insurance costs more, deal with it.

Why can't we have free markets for those that can qualify for it and save the shitty care for those that can afford or can't qualify? The idea of Medicare for everyone sucks and is completely inefficient. No one wants to pay for substandard care at higher prices.

This whole situation makes me want to bang my head that into a wall repeatly. Just walk away, don't pass this garbage. We are one or two tweaks away from single payer. I don't want our side (I use that very loosely) to be blames for healthcare failure.

Arrrrrrgh!!!!



Jesse

A couple SIGs and a few others
 
Posts: 9960 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
posted Hide Post
quote:
This whole situation makes me want to bang my head that into a wall repeatedly. Just walk away, don't pass this garbage. We are one or two tweaks away from single payer. I don't want our side (I use that very loosely) to be blamed for healthcare failure.

Arrrrrrgh!!!!

Jesse

Thanks, Skins2881, couldn't agree more.



"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 12930 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
#DrainTheSwamp
Picture of P229 357SIG Man
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Jerry Moran of Kansas and Mike Lee of Utah won't support the bill...that makes four.


P226 9 mm
P229 .357 SIG
Glock 17
AR15 Spikes - Noveske - Daniel Defense Frankenbuild
 
Posts: 759 | Location: Glen Allen, Virginia | Registered: January 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
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The tweak that could cost Mike Lee's vote and sink the healthcare bill

The issue, which various members of the healthcare industry have said makes the bill unworkable, arose as McConnell moved to integrate the Cruz amendment into the broader bill, the Better Care Reconciliation Act. The amendment allows insurers to offer less-expensive plans that don't have to comply with most of Obamacare's wide range of regulations as long as they also offer a plan that is fully compliant. Presumably, people who have more medical needs would purchase the plans that are more expensive and cover more medical care, but it would mean that healthier customers could buy plans that include less and also cost less.

In a new twist, the final version of the amendment leaves in place Obamacare's requirement for insurers in every state to have one single risk pool rather than one for sicker individuals and one for healthier individuals as had been originally envisioned. That means that as currently written, the Cruz proposal would be asking insurers to operate plans governed by two different regulatory regimes within a single risk pool. The novel idea comes with many complicated implications, has left even the most seasoned healthcare experts scratching their heads as they try to game out how this might work in the real world, and has left many inside the insurance industry uneasy.

In a new twist, the final version of the amendment leaves in place Obamacare's requirement for insurers in every state to have one single risk pool rather than one for sicker individuals and one for healthier individuals as had been originally envisioned. That means that as currently written, the Cruz proposal would be asking insurers to operate plans governed by two different regulatory regimes within a single risk pool. The novel idea comes with many complicated implications, has left even the most seasoned healthcare experts scratching their heads as they try to game out how this might work in the real world, and has left many inside the insurance industry uneasy.

http://www.washingtonexaminer....bill/article/2628755

GOP Sens. Jerry Moran (Kansas) and Mike Lee (Utah) announced on Monday night they will not support taking up a bill repealing and replacing ObamaCare, effectively blocking the legislation.

"This closed-door process has yielded the [bill], which fails to repeal the Affordable Care Act or address healthcare’s rising costs. For the same reasons I could not support the previous version of this bill, I cannot support this one," Moran said in a statement.
Lee added on Twitter that he and Moran will not support proceeding to "this version" of the Senate GOP legislation, known as the Better Care Reconciliation Act.

http://thehill.com/policy/heal...t-on-healthcare-bill


"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 12930 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
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PragerU Video: Government Can't Fix Health Care
Government tends to make things worse.

There's also a concept known as the second-party purchase, where you're "buying something for somebody else." In this instance, the price matters to the person paying for the product more than the quality does. Consumers who end up receiving something that somebody else paid for also care more about the quality than the price.

But in the third-party purchase, the purchaser doesn't care about either price or quality because they're paying with other people's money for a product they won't be using.

"By definition, all government purchases are third-party purchases. The government spends other people's money on things it won't consume," said McEwen. "It doesn't care about the price or the quality. Thus, there will always be waste in government spending."



"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 12930 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Skins2881
posted Hide Post
Good. Can't wait to see 2018 increases. People will eventually beg for a solution to ObamaCare.

Don't give in a vote for something just to pass something. Pass something that addresses the colossal f$!@ up that is ObamaCare. I want something that lowers the cost of insurance;.offers a wide array of options from mostly self insuring to mostly covered; and includes risk based underwriting (insurance). Finally it must offer a option of last resort. I think that is the only role govt should play, coverage for the destitute and those too sick to qualify for something. Create a govt subsidized plan for that subset and leave 80% of Americans able to choose their own coverage.

The colossal fair of ObamaCare has always been that the fucked EVERYONE over to provide for 10% of population. I'm not a cruel bastard. Create insurance/programs for the unlucky/unhealthy/poor and allow the markets to provide for the other 90%. The only request I make is do it in a way that is not financially disastrous to county/citizens.



Jesse

A couple SIGs and a few others
 
Posts: 9960 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of erj_pilot
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Neither Cruz nor Cornyn will be getting my vote in 2018 should the Republicans attempt to band-aid this ACA instead of TOTALLY repealing this steaming turd.



"If you’re a leader, you lead the way. Not just on the easy ones; you take the tough ones too…” – MAJ Richard D. Winters (1918-2011), E Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil... Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel." - Isaiah 5:20,24
 
Posts: 3937 | Location: NW Houston | Registered: April 04, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Skins2881
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by chellim1:
PragerU Video: Government Can't Fix Health Care
Government tends to make things worse.

There's also a concept known as the second-party purchase, where you're "buying something for somebody else." In this instance, the price matters to the person paying for the product more than the quality does. Consumers who end up receiving something that somebody else paid for also care more about the quality than the price.

But in the third-party purchase, the purchaser doesn't care about either price or quality because they're paying with other people's money for a product they won't be using.

"By definition, all government purchases are third-party purchases. The government spends other people's money on things it won't consume," said McEwen. "It doesn't care about the price or the quality. Thus, there will always be waste in government spending."

[FLASH_VIDEO removed


I'm a dumb blue collar electrician that plays with wires for a living and that's common sense. How is it not for all of these smart elected officials and coastal city livers?

Which one of the emoticons equals exasperation?



Jesse

A couple SIGs and a few others
 
Posts: 9960 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by erj_pilot:
Neither Cruz nor Cornyn will be getting my vote in 2018 should the Republicans attempt to band-aid this ACA instead of TOTALLY repealing this steaming turd.


Why is that?

Is it their fault that the other Senators won't vote correctly?




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 42820 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of erj_pilot
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:
Why is that?

Is it their fault that the other Senators won't vote correctly?

Both fine Texans, but until you convince me otherwise, sir, I don't see either of them pushing or voting for FULL repeal. Plain and simple. "The will of the people", I believe is the phrase.....



"If you’re a leader, you lead the way. Not just on the easy ones; you take the tough ones too…” – MAJ Richard D. Winters (1918-2011), E Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil... Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel." - Isaiah 5:20,24
 
Posts: 3937 | Location: NW Houston | Registered: April 04, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Political Cynic
Picture of nhtagmember
posted Hide Post
at first I wanted to pass a bill but now I am starting to re-think that position

I think they should let the bill die

I think what they should do is allow ZippyCare continue to implode to the point where its utterly dead, and is repealed by default



Peace is not the absence of conflict, but rather when you have your foot firmly on the enemies neck

"I'm only myself when I have a guitar in my hands." - George Harrison


 
Posts: 45121 | Location: Arizona | Registered: January 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Admin/Odd Duck

Picture of lbj
posted Hide Post
I am of the same mind, let this bill fail and let Obamacare implode.


____________________________________________________
New and improved super concentrated me:
Proud rebel, heretic, and Pentecostal.


There is iron in my words of death for all to see.
So there is iron in my words of life.

 
Posts: 30611 | Registered: February 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by erj_pilot:
quote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:
Why is that?

Is it their fault that the other Senators won't vote correctly?

Both fine Texans, but until you convince me otherwise, sir, I don't see either of them pushing or voting for FULL repeal. Plain and simple. "The will of the people", I believe is the phrase.....


Yeah, let's just put the Democrats back in charge again. That'll work so much better for us.

Seriously, do you really think Cruz wouldn't outright repeal this mess if he could? There's no chance of a simple full repeal. None. Not with Senators like McCain and Collins in there. But your plan is to get rid of the few really great conservative Senators that we have? That's not logical.


~Alan

Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Endowment)
Family, Guns, Country

"My guns are always loaded."
~R.G. Justified

What whiskey will not cure, there is no cure.
 
Posts: 18061 | Location: Out of Jersey, Into Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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