the reason why you can't repeal the entire thing in one sentence is that you have people currently covered under Obamacare and they need to be moved off before you kill it

I think this is just step 1 so give it time

good news is that penalties are gone

everything else is essentially gravy

How 'bout I just lock this thing? Because that's my inclination right now.

You guys good with that?

I am not going to listen to a bunch of pissing and moaning about this.

Trump campaigned on preserving the requirement that people with preexisting conditions be able to get coverage. That's not insurance - that's third-party payment. Unfortunately, it seems like the ship has sailed on that argument and now it is written in stone that pre-existing conditions are covered.

Unfortunately, that element requires a mandate or a penalty to avoid people signing up for insurance when they get sick and reaping significant benefits from the policy without a history of premium payments. Otherwise the costs of their sickness are distributed to others unfairly beyond what happens in a typical insurance risk pool.

This is our one chance to reset the insurance market back to its normal function, but it doesn't seem like there is any political will to do so. Healthcare is now a right, and the government must make sure everyone can get it.

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
Trump campaigned on preserving the requirement that people with preexisting conditions be able to get coverage. That's not insurance - that's third-party payment. Unfortunately, it seems like the ship has sailed on that argument and now it is written in stone that pre-existing conditions are covered.

Unfortunately, that element requires a mandate or a penalty to avoid people signing up for insurance when they get sick and reaping significant benefits from the policy without a history of premium payments. Otherwise the costs of their sickness are distributed to others unfairly beyond what happens in a typical insurance risk pool.

This is our one chance to reset the insurance market back to its normal function, but it doesn't seem like there is any political will to do so. Healthcare is now a right, and the government must make sure everyone can get it.

The proposed plan rescinds the mandate.

The proposed plan covers pre-existing conditions, but consumers must maintain continuous coverage -- otherwise, they would face a flat 30 percent surcharge on top of their premiums. States could use federal money to create high-risk pools as insurers of last resort.

Yes, it is political - name 8 democrat senators who would go along with ANY republican replacement of Obamacare. That would be required to replace it without maintaining the structure of Obamacare, which allows changes to go thru the reconciliation process and keeps it immune from filibuster.

All talk of bemoaning the fact that it's not a total replacement needs to be accompanied by a plan that will be supported by ALL republicans and at least 8 current democrat senators.

Without that, it's just whining.

Seems like some want there to be a presidential proclamation that Obamacare is over as of this moment. How terribly naive and shortsighted.

You can't just tell 20M people they suddenly need to go to the ER for services. You need to peel back this thing one layer at a time. Some days you can peel more than one and other days none.

So long as you keeping moving towards the goal of repeal and replace it's progress.

Think of it as just passing an EO that says SSDI is done with effectively immediately. Same chaos.

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
Well said, BurtonRW.

Which republican healthcare plan are all republicans PLUS 8 democrat senators going to vote for? Specifically, which 8 democrat senators?

Then they should have waited until they had a better plan or enough support.

This plan and action is premature, wholly inadequate, anything but conservative, and almost entirely inconsistent with campaign promises.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
Then they should have waited until they had a better plan or enough support.

This plan and action is premature, wholly inadequate, anything but conservative, and almost entirely inconsistent with campaign promises.

Dose of political reality:

Democrat senators will NEVER support a repeal and certainly NEVER vote for a republican healthcare plan, so Obamacare would continue in perpetuity or until you get 60+ republicans with no RINOs elected to the Senate.

That's just reality.

I support doing what we can when we can. Repealing the mandate is the #1 thing I was looking for, and it delivers.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:This plan and action is premature, wholly inadequate, anything but conservative, and almost entirely inconsistent with campaign promises.

How many members of Congress promised full "Repeal and Replace" in their campaigns?

One of the better changes in the proposed plan is it lowers a young persons premium by allowing a 60 year olds premium to increase from 3x to 5 times the normal premium.

quote:

Originally posted by Elk Hunter:

quote:

Originally posted by gw3971:
Last year i had a kidney stone and went to the E.R. to get treatment. I forgot my insurance card and the clerk advised me as she tried to verify my insurance that the MRI would cost $3100. It would only be $700 if I had no insurance and had to pay cash.

Why do we allow hospitals to gouge insurance companies which In turn jack up their rates and gouge us?

Last I heard, some years ago, the insurance companies do not pay that $3100 either. They negotiate it down to a level acceptable to both parties.

Want the price to drop??? How about this? Kidney stones not being covered by insurance? You pay for it out of your own pocket. All of this minor stuff should not be covered by insurance. But, when EVERYTHING is covered by insurance, yeah, stuff gets stupid expensive. They have to. It's economics 101, fellas. It ain't rocket science.

When you bust a brake line on your car, is it covered under your auto insurance? No? Why not? Because if it did, auto insurance rates would be through the roof. The way health insurance is. Health insurance should be for catastrophic illness only. Have an ingrown toe nail? You're going to be out of pocket for the cost. Until such a time that we prioritize what is and isn't covered as necessary for health insurance, expect the idiocy that is the current system in one form or another.

Jason Chavez is exactly right on his comments. People are more than willing to buy a new iPhone each and every time it comes out, pay for insurance on that iPhone to keep it up, but think it is insane that they have to pay for their own health insurance.

Bama... We will never know will we as no one had the guts to put out there what was promised and allowed the American citizen to rally around it.

Someone is forgetting the voice of the voter who put the squishy republicans back in for another term to allow an unelectable president to change the status quo.

I hope this dies as I do not want this president to have this hanging around his neck for the next 3 years.

Put out the plan promised. The Dems that are at risk in 2018 will either move on this or lose.

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
Trump campaigned on preserving the requirement that people with preexisting conditions be able to get coverage. That's not insurance - that's third-party payment. Unfortunately, it seems like the ship has sailed on that argument and now it is written in stone that pre-existing conditions are covered.

Unfortunately, that element requires a mandate or a penalty to avoid people signing up for insurance when they get sick and reaping significant benefits from the policy without a history of premium payments. Otherwise the costs of their sickness are distributed to others unfairly beyond what happens in a typical insurance risk pool.

This is our one chance to reset the insurance market back to its normal function, but it doesn't seem like there is any political will to do so. Healthcare is now a right, and the government must make sure everyone can get it.

The proposed plan rescinds the mandate.

The proposed plan covers pre-existing conditions, but consumers must maintain continuous coverage -- otherwise, they would face a flat 30 percent surcharge on top of their premiums. States could use federal money to create high-risk pools as insurers of last resort.

The legal mandate is gone, but there is still a penalty for noncontinuous coverage. Economically, how is that any different? The consequence of requiring coverage of preexisting conditions necessarily means that there has to be a mechanism to get people to buy insurance before they are sick. In Obamacare, it was a mandate. That mandate did not work to adequately derisk the pool of insureds. The pool got riskier and riskier making premiums go up and up.

Now if a legal mandate couldn't adequately address the economic effect of coverage of preexisting conditions, how will a non-legal requirement do so?

The bottom line is that once you agree that preexisting conditions have to be covered, then you have to have a way to stop people from gaming the system. The mechanism of the ACA and the ACHA are inadequate. The best way to encourage people to get insurance is to allow insurance companies to reject coverage for preexisting conditions. That way, the penalty for remaining uninsured is not a small financial penalty which doesn't come close to compensating for the increased cost of your healthcare. The penalty would be noncoverage. That is an incentive.

quote:

Originally posted by bozman:
Bama... We will never know will we as no one had the guts to put out there what was promised and allowed the American citizen to rally around it.

Someone is forgetting the voice of the voter who put the squishy republicans back in for another term to allow an unelectable president to change the status quo.

I hope this dies as I do not want this president to have this hanging around his neck for the next 3 years.

Put out the plan promised. The Dems that are at risk in 2018 will either move on this or lose.

You may think that democrats would vote for a republican healthcare plan, but we all know in today's climate that is absolutely not going to happen. No way, not even one vote. The ONLY possible exception would be Manchin from WV - but I highly doubt you would even get all the RINOs to support a real reform that is market based.

I'll take what I can get for now and trust that the guy we elected will continue to work on it in the phase 2 and phase 3 rollouts like he said he would.

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
the reason why you can't repeal the entire thing in one sentence is that you have people currently covered under Obamacare and they need to be moved off before you kill it

I think this is just step 1 so give it time

good news is that penalties are gone

everything else is essentially gravy

These are my thoughts, it has to be in steps. I honestly feel Medicare or something like that should cover pre-existing conditions, other than that it should go to a free market system. Personally, I wouldn't care if I paid a $10 monthly tax that goes towards people with pre-existing conditions.....if the prices go back to 2008 levels

The WH press briefing has been great. It's late into it now, but when over and link is available I will post it.

Tom Price did a great job explaining it and answering questions and Spicer is doing a good job as well.

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
The WH press briefing has been great. It's late into it now, but when over and link is available I will post it.

Some of these morons have the opportunity to ask a question of the Press Secretary of the sitting President of the United States, and they let their dumbass partisan asshole speak for them. "Is the President going to call this Trumpcare?!"

Or that smirking idiot wench that asked Price "What do you mean the process?" Da fuq? GTFO.

Conservative think tanks Heritage Action, the Club for Growth, Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks all came out against the new GOP healthcare bill.

Tom Price calls the bill a "work in progress."

Trump says it's ready for "negotiation."

This thing is far from a done deal.

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
Conservative think tanks Heritage Action, the Club for Growth, Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks all came out against the new GOP healthcare bill.

Tom Price calls the bill a "work in progress."

Trump says it's ready for "negotiation."

This thing is far from a done deal.

Exactly. I think some have blown up and gone off the rails because it's not 100% everything they wanted right now.

That's not the way it works and will never work. When something requires 60 votes in the Senate all the whining in the world won't change that fact.

This bill does a bunch of stuff that can be changed in the existing framework. More will come after this that will require full legislation to change. Let the process unfold.

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
Conservative think tanks Heritage Action, the Club for Growth, Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks all came out against the new GOP healthcare bill.

Tom Price calls the bill a "work in progress."

Trump says it's ready for "negotiation."

This thing is far from a done deal.

Exactly. I think some have blown up and gone off the rails because it's not 100% everything they wanted right now.

That's not the way it works and will never work. When something requires 60 votes in the Senate all the whining in the world won't change that fact.

This bill does a bunch of stuff that can be changed in the existing framework. More will come after this that will require full legislation to change. Let the process unfold.

Dennis Prager, and many others I'm sure, always talk about how the most conservative R's need to stop throwing out the good in favor of the unattainable perfect.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
the reason why you can't repeal the entire thing in one sentence is that you have people currently covered under Obamacare and they need to be moved off before you kill it

I think this is just step 1 so give it time

good news is that penalties are gone

everything else is essentially gravy

These are my thoughts, it has to be in steps. I honestly feel Medicare or something like that should cover pre-existing conditions, other than that it should go to a free market system. Personally, I wouldn't care if I paid a $10 monthly tax that goes towards people with pre-existing conditions.....if the prices go back to 2008 levels

If I could get 2008 coverage AND prices, I'd pay an extra $50 a month tax to cover the uninsurable. I'd still be 100 times better off than what I have now.