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Now in Florida |
I suppose there is some truth to that, but the recent history of the GOP doesn't give me confidence that they are widely committed to a full repeal. It seems in most cases, the GOP Congressional Caucus, with the exception of a minority of conservatives, is more than happy to be the party of slightly less big government to the Democrats' party of big government. THe DEms are the "free shit" party and the GOP is the "we can distribute the free shit in a more efficient manner" party. My bitch is not so much with the healthcare bill - it's bad, but I recognize the political realities. The ACHA is only a symbol of the decline of the GOP as an ideological force for limited government and free markets. That's what chaps my hide. And I have never lost sight of the fact that the Democrats created this mess - but I also know they aren't going to fix it. They have no desire to fix it and no competence to do it anyways. It's up to the GOP to get us out of this mess. For that reason, I think its important to stay on top of them and make our views known. When the Democrats passed this monstrosity, they went to the mat for it. They were willing to lose seats to enact a long-sought goal. I just want the GOP to have the same fire in its belly to restore individual liberty and free markets. While they can only do whats possible in the current political environment, I'd like to at least have confidence that they are committed to the end goal, but what I am seeing is that they are generally committed to nothing more than their re-election. | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
Right you are, sir! Meanwhile, yes... it's complicated. I think we can all understand that. It won't be "fixed" quick or easy. Obamacare repeal effort stumbles into Senate http://www.washingtonexaminer....ence/article/2622181 "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process  |
Purists should not like reconciliation but right now, it's all we have. Go to war with the Army you have and all that. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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Member |
Para has made it abundantly clear he does not wish to hear any more negativity about the current Repub plan for American healthcare. As such, please do not aim any more responses at me about my original post as I have no intention of responding any further. ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
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| Gone but Together Again. Dad & Uncle  |
Here is a summary chart of the House bill produced by NAHU (national association of health underwriters) of which I am a member thereof:  | |||
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| Now in Florida |
Nice to see all those taxes repealed. Especially the capital gains surtax. That one alone is a big boost to the economy. | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
How will this take shape in the Senate? Senate Taking Similar Approach to Obamacare Repeal as 2010 Passage In 2010, Democrats were facing the obstacles of a GOP filibuster and reconciliation rules. So, the Senate majority leadership let the Pelosi’s House pass the Affordable Care Act, while they began work on their own proposals. Sound familiar? Not quite, because most outlets are reporting today’s Republican Senate developments with salacious headlines that are misleading people. Headlines like, “Senate won’t vote on House-passed bill,” “While Trump Was Celebrating Senate Republicans Killed The House Health Care Bill,” and “Senate Reportedly Won’t Even Vote on House Health Care Bill” left many of us going, “huh?” The reality is that while the president was jubilantly celebrating the partial passage of the American Health Care Act in the House, the Senate was already working on it’s own deal. And, that’s ok. In fact, that’s normal on big, comprehensive issues. The doomed comprehensive immigration reform of 2006 started out as H.R. 4437 and S. 2611, while the ACA started out as H.R. 3590, while the Senate used 3590 as their vehicle (in a twist, 3590 was actually a House bill they amended by gutting, and completely changing, then sent back to the conference committee). It’s a page right out of the Democrats’ playbook from 2010, when the Senate and House each created their own bills, hashed out the details in joint committee, then united the two in reconciliation. Here’s how it went down: The Senate approved their bill on December 24, 2013, 60-39, separate from the House’s bill. Three weeks later, Scott Brown won his special election in Massachusetts, to take late Sen. Edward Kennedy’s empty spot, giving the Republicans a 41 vote filibuster. House Democrats had expected to be able to negotiate changes in a House-Senate conference before passing a final bill, until Brown’s win. Since any bill that emerged from conference that differed from the Senate bill would have to pass the Senate over the Republican filibuster, most House Democrats agreed to pass the Senate bill on condition that it be amended by a subsequent bill. They drafted the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act, which could be passed by the reconciliation process. Share this Now, does this three-part process sound familiar? It should. It’s the current GOP proposal. Yes, it’s a mind bender to comprehend, which doesn’t help. But misleading headlines are good for no one except the web traffic guys. Since most people never get past the headline, I would prefer to avoid adding to the truth problem. Currently, an unspecified “working group” of 12 Republican Senators are hashing out their own proposals. Besides Sens. Cornyn (R-TX) and Blunt (R-MO), all we know of the other members are that they’re from the Finance, Budget, and the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) committees. The chairs of each are Orrin Hatch, Mike Enzi and Lamar Alexander, respectively. The most conservative members of these three committees are Mike Crapo (UT), Rand Paul (KY) and Tim Scott (SC). Whatever comes out of the Senate will surely be challenging for the conservatives and the House Freedom Caucus to swallow. But, I would ask my fellow conservatives to find a place of pragmatic principle here, where it’s possible to both stand for the right position, and fight to move the needle, still accepting that not everyone is going to agree where we land. Especially with such a slim majority in the Senate (Democrats had between 59 and 60 votes, we have only 52). Too often, we think in a simplistic manner, that if we win an election, it means the most conservative legislation must go through, or we’ve been betrayed. Yet, the progressives have managed incremental change for at least the last 150 years. It works for them. We should take a few lessons and do the same. Anyone who has governed by committee understands the challenges of moving forward with the strong heads of others you think are on your side. I hope that our most conservative senators, can have their effect on this process, but any baby steps are an improvement over the status quo. Right now, Sens. Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, Mike Crapo, Marco Rubio and Ben Sasse are the most conservative members in office. Sen. Paul is the only one on any of these committees writing the legislation. I’ve linked each name to their contact page. It’s ok to take our time to do this right, but we need to understand that doing it right doesn’t always mean doing it perfect, all at once. We also need to win at least another 4-5 Senate seats next year. Let’s keep cool heads, continue the pressure, and by God, keep the headlines honest. http://theresurgent.com/senate...eal-as-2010-passage/ "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
This is what I've been saying for a long time.
Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| Now in Florida |
This is exactly right. But what I've been saying for a long time is that the Democrats achieve their steady incremental gains because they are laser-focused on an end goal: maximum government. If the GOP wants to have that kind of success, they have to be committed to something beyond winning elections. They have to have a vision and be willing to work towards it, guided by resolute principles. I don't see that in today's GOP and that's where the frustration comes from. | |||
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Member |
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step." - Lao Tzu | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
To a certain extent, it might be like a football game. How many games are shut outs? Offenses almost always score. Defenses almost always give up some points. The libs are for change, i.e. Offense. As The Devil's Dictionary put it, "Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others." Ambrose Bierce Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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Oriental Redneck |
How soon we forget. Incremental changes? They had control and they jammed Obamacare down our throat. Q | |||
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| wishing we were congress |
http://www.powerlineblog.com/a...-a-major-tax-cut.php It turns out that repealing Obamacare is, indeed, a major tax cut, although not mostly for the “rich.” Americans For Tax Reform calculates that the House repeal bill constitutes a trillion dollar tax cut. It: -Abolishes the Obamacare Individual Mandate Tax which hits 8 million Americans each year. -Abolishes the Obamacare Employer Mandate Tax. Together with repeal of the Individual Mandate Tax repeal this is a $270 billion tax cut. -Abolishes Obamacare’s Medicine Cabinet Tax which hits 20 million Americans with Health Savings Accounts and 30 million Americans with Flexible Spending Accounts. This is a $6 billion tax cut. -Abolishes Obamacare’s Flexible Spending Account tax on 30 million Americans. This is a $20 billion tax cut. -Abolishes Obamacare’s Chronic Care Tax on 10 million Americans with high out of pocket medical expenses. This is a $126 billion tax cut. -Abolishes Obamacare’s HSA withdrawal tax. This is a $100 million tax cut. -Abolishes Obamacare’s 10% excise tax on small businesses with indoor tanning services. This is a $600 million tax cut. -Abolishes the Obamacare health insurance tax. This is a $145 billion tax cut. -Abolishes the Obamacare 3.8% surtax on investment income. This is a $172 billion tax cut. -Abolishes the Obamacare medical device tax. This is a $20 billion tax cut. -Abolishes the Obamacare tax on prescription medicine. This is a $28 billion tax cut. -Abolishes the Obamacare tax on retiree prescription drug coverage. This is a $2 billion tax cut. | |||
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| Oriental Redneck |
The so-called "tax cut" that comes the from the Obamacare mandate is not any tax cut, because the goddamn thing was never supposed to be there in the first place. The entire thing was fucking criminal and tyranny.  Why is everybody hoodwinked into thinking that this is a tax cut? Ooh, they are doing us a great favor with this "tax cut". Pisses me off. Q | |||
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| wishing we were congress |
Two things to keep in mind: 1. obamacare has been collapsing ever since it started. It is not sustainable, and never was sustainable. 2. The DEMs are keeping us from doing a clean restart. They jammed obamacare down our throats in 2010, and they will fight like demons to keep it. If you like your obamacare, you can ... obamacare supporters deny it is in a death spiral that was predicted even before it was "passed" by the DEMs. http://hotair.com/archives/201...stages-death-spiral/ Maryland insurer requests 59% premium hike, says Obamacare in first stages of death spiral The deadline for Obamacare insurers to submit rate increases for next year has already arrived in some states, which means we’re beginning to get a look at how rate increases may be shaping up for 2018 In Maryland, CareFirst Blue Cross Blue Shield, one of the largest insurers in the region, has requested a 58.8% increase in premiums for next year The company has also requested a 35% increase in neighboring Virginia. Chet Burrell, chief executive of CareFirst: “What we’re seeing is greater sickness levels. The pool of beneficiaries is becoming sicker, in part because healthier people are not coming in at the same level we hoped,” Burrell said he was worried that the market was in the early stages of a death spiral, in which sick people who need insurance stay in the pool but healthier people drop out, causing insurers to raise rates — driving even more healthy people out of the market. “We were hoping for more stability. The factors that I have described to you today lead to instability and to a spiral, and we think we are in the beginning of that,” Burrell said. Maryland also released rate requests from three other insurers. Those requests ranged from 18 to 37 percent Last year there was an average 22% increase in premiums nationwide Iowa and parts of Tennessee might have no insurers at all | |||
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| Oriental Redneck |
Btw, what the hell does this mean? The mandate is still there, but we're just not going to tax you? Because that's how I read it. Does anybody have/know the actual writing in the bill? If you're going to repeal, then just say, the individual mandate is hereby abolished. That's it. Done. It naturally follows that the tax penalty is simply gone. If you just say, "the tax is abolished", then the mandate is still in effect. They just are not going to tax you for now. In fact, didn't I read somewhere that the insurance companies can penalize you if you let your coverage lapses, in some cases? Q | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
Duh! Everyone who understands Obamacare knew that would happen. The "individual market" is toast. Destroyed. Prices are too high for most people to participate. The "group market" is still largely intact. "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| wishing we were congress |
The bill: https://www.congress.gov/115/b...ILLS-115hr1628rh.pdf The bill eliminates the penalty owed to the IRS for not being insured. see section 205 of the bill | |||
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| Oriental Redneck |
See, that's my point. The mandate is not struck out. It only talks about the tax penalty. It only says 0%, instead of the 2.5% tax, and $0, instead of the $695 tax penalty. The mandate remains. This leaves room for them to penalize us again later, whenever they're itching for it. Why can't they just simply write, "The individual mandate is hereby abolished", if they truly mean it? One simple sentence, instead of the convoluted writing,
Q | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
Yes, you are right... but convoluted writing is the way we do things. If the .gov didn't want to control every little detail they would abolish the whole thing: "The ACA is hereby repealed". It would save a lot of paper, time and effort. But then what would all of the K street lobbyists do? "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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