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Jet engine issue. How dangerous was this Login/Join 
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Thanks for the info and explainations.
 
Posts: 5434 | Location: Virginia | Registered: December 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
7.62mm Crusader
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Wont add much but I've seen the large titanium blades being machined on a huge 5 axis Makino. Over 200 hours milling to complete 1. These were for the latest GE engines.
 
Posts: 15191 | Registered: December 23, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by SPWAMike0317:
SNS, great explanation. The flight crew did what they were trained to do and safely landed. Kudos to that crew.

Question: is this a Pan-Pan or a Mayday?


I imagine that's subjective, but most would probably want to declare an emergency for priority handling. The fact that those parts are glowing from friction and not action from the hot section suggests that things aren't done going wrong yet. It's a good illustration why delaying returning to terra firma may be a poor choice.

For recent events, I often reflect on UPS 6, out of Dubai. They were alongside Doha when they became aware of the fire, and could have made an immediate turn for Doha, the closest option. They returned to Dubai and didn't make it. The fire overtook them a lot faster than they thought.

While an event like this is a shutdown and secure, the underlying possibility that it could progress into something worse even with the procedure followed shouldn't be discounted. We tend to think in terms of an engine just being dead weight after it's caged in flight, but it's still out there windmilling and turning accessories and parts. In this case N1 shafts, which are doing their best impression of a boy scout flint and steel free for all. If the shaft fails, given that the bearing has already gone, an entire fan, turbine, or compressor wheel could depart enmasse or in pieces, with unfortunate results.

Calling Pan Pan might have the same result under the certain circumstances of calling low or minimum fuel when in fact the moment is more dire. A caged engine isn't such a large scare, but the potential of where it could go should also be considered.
 
Posts: 3577 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'd be damn thankful to have both feet on the ground. The $30 is an unexpected bonus and would buy a couple of beers waiting for the next flight. Just my opinion.
 
Posts: 2968 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: August 16, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'd be damn thankful to have both feet on the ground. The $30 is an unexpected bonus and would buy a couple of beers waiting for the next flight. Just my opinion.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You need to sign the little waiver to get the beers. It says you got the beers and in the tiny print you give up your right to sue. Just kidding. I am sure this sort of thing seriously frightened a lot of people and they should make some offer along those lines, not furnish people with a 30 dollar voucher.
 
Posts: 5539 | Location: MS GULF COAST | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Fan blades. Turbine blades. Same difference, right? Razz




They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
 
Posts: 4754 | Location: SC - along the PSA wagon trail | Registered: January 27, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
A Grateful American
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quote:
Originally posted by MitchbSC:
Fan blades. Turbine blades. Same difference, right? Razz


No.

Fan blades are turbofan front section, large blades that move the majority of air around the engine and proved thrust much like a prop.

Turbine blades are deep inside at that rear of the compressor section and are driven by the gases created from the combustion section and drive the shaft that turns the front impeller blades on a turbojet, and the fan and impeller blades on a turbofan.

The engine on the MD-88 is a twin turbine (N1 and N2) turbojet engine. There are two shafts front and rear that operate independent compressor section, and the turbine section.

A Turbofan is similar but the compressor (front) section also has a higher bypass fan. (typically a T-jet is longer and narrower cross-section and a T-Fan is a shorter and wider engine, appearance wise)

(generally speaking)




"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" I could explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
 
Posts: 39380 | Location: fl | Registered: December 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks sigmonkey.

The video has been all over the internet with folks claiming turbine blades "oh yeah, can take that heat." Uhm. That's fan section. Different temps. Entirely different metallurgy. Red and white hot in the fan section gives me butt pucker.

It's been too many years since my "Suck. Squeeze. Bang. Blow. Afterburn optional." intro.




They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
 
Posts: 4754 | Location: SC - along the PSA wagon trail | Registered: January 27, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Posts: 11808 | Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: December 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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PFM
 
Posts: 3577 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
For recent events, I often reflect on UPS 6, out of Dubai. They were alongside Doha when they became aware of the fire, and could have made an immediate turn for Doha, the closest option. They returned to Dubai and didn't make it. The fire overtook them a lot faster than they thought.


Or for less recent, Swissair 111. Smoke in the cockpit. They talked about it, called Pan-Pan, diverted to Halifax but circled back to dump fuel prior to landing. But that's just from my rather feeble memory.

ETA - The investigation found that even had they not turned back to dump fuel, they still would have crashed.


_______________________
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Posts: 7589 | Registered: July 21, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I would have been happy to be wearing my brown pants!




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Remember - Training is not sparring. Sparring is not fighting. Fighting is not combat.
 
Posts: 7883 | Location: Alpharetta, GA | Registered: August 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Calling Pan Pan might have the same result under the certain circumstances of calling low or minimum fuel when in fact the moment is more dire. A caged engine isn't such a large scare, but the potential of where it could go should also be considered.

A long time ago I was taught that it is always better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than vice versa. When in doubt declare. Get priority treatment and concentrate on dealing with your situation while the controller and his supervisor worry about getting everyone else out of your way and getting you any assistance they can.
 
Posts: 4055 | Registered: February 23, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:

It does mean that the crew is left with one source for electricity, pneumatic air for pressurization and anti-ice, one hydraulic source, etc, so aside from the loss of thrust, there are other concerns that dictate making a landing as soon as practical.


Actually, you still have another source of pneumatic and electrical from the APU.
 
Posts: 1599 | Location: McDonough, GA | Registered: January 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by wingfoot:
quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:

It does mean that the crew is left with one source for electricity, pneumatic air for pressurization and anti-ice, one hydraulic source, etc, so aside from the loss of thrust, there are other concerns that dictate making a landing as soon as practical.


Actually, you still have another source of pneumatic and electrical from the APU.

Or RAT depending on the aircraft. APU = Auxiliary Power Unit, RAT = Ram Air Turbine.

Note that if you need to use one or the other for electric or pneumatic power*, you have bigger problems than electric or pneumatic power.

*and you’re not sitting on the ground running the APU prior to engine start.
 
Posts: 4055 | Registered: February 23, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by wingfoot:

Actually, you still have another source of pneumatic and electrical from the APU.


That depends on altitude, and whether the APU is operative.

quote:
Originally posted by slosig:
When in doubt declare.


I went a long time without a declaration, despite perhaps three dozen engine failures in that period, as well as hydrulic loss, gear failures, a few on board fires, etc. In some quarters, many of those are abnormals, and in some quarters, most of those are normals. A lot of that was behind radial engines. Want to see a round engine pilot sweat? Go a few hours without a problem. The suspense kills.

Many moons ago we had an engine with a problem; it got spun up for the takeoff, shut down enroute to the fire, spun up for the drop, shut down on the way back to the tanker base, and spun up for landing. Appearances, until a nightfall when the engine could be changed. Different world.
 
Posts: 3577 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I was on Kc135 and ground called and told us we blew both front tires on rotation and lost a door. Thought we had to land with no nose gear. Turns out we lost 2 tires on the right main. We got lots of attention all the way to Otis. We had a lot of pretty lights lining the runway when we landed. Don’t mess around with flying gas stations!





Hedley Lamarr: Wait, wait, wait. I'm unarmed.
Bart: Alright, we'll settle this like men, with our fists.
Hedley Lamarr: Sorry, I just remembered . . . I am armed.
 
Posts: 5695 | Location: Atlanta | Registered: April 23, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The airplane left Raleigh today, but had to land in Charlotte for further mechanical problems (waiting for news link).

This plane is full of ghosts!


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Posts: 7288 | Location: Raleighwood | Registered: June 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
A Grateful American
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Correction to my OP.

N906DL is the subject airframe.

My friend and other's were talking about several things while sitting in Raleigh and he texted me N927DA (incorrect) thinking that was the number of their aircraft from the discussion.




"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" I could explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
 
Posts: 39380 | Location: fl | Registered: December 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
quote:
Originally posted by wingfoot:

Actually, you still have another source of pneumatic and electrical from the APU.


That depends on altitude, and whether the APU is operative.


Yes, it does have a max operating ceiling of 37,000 ft. and the aircraft would be typically be flying less than that.

Yes, I agree it would depend on the APU working to supply pneumatic and electrical power. Roll Eyes
 
Posts: 1599 | Location: McDonough, GA | Registered: January 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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