SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    Jet engine issue. How dangerous was this
Page 1 2 3 4 

Moderators: Chris Orndorff, LDD
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Jet engine issue. How dangerous was this Login/Join 
Member
posted
To me it looks like bearing failure, and a part breaking off. How serious was it? Anyone know what flight it was?

 
Posts: 5434 | Location: Virginia | Registered: December 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Avoiding
slam fires
Picture of 45 Cal
posted Hide Post
there goes a million plus .
 
Posts: 21859 | Location: Georgia | Registered: February 19, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lost
Picture of kkina
posted Hide Post
 
Posts: 11823 | Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: December 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Oldrider
posted Hide Post
The turbine blades would be trashed if that piece continued through the engine. Not good. I'm going to guess sloppy assembly of an out of tolerance part as the culprit. I'm also of the opinion that someone should lose their A & P license and be relegated to cleaning the toilets. Stuff like that usually cause major loss of life.


___________________________________________________________
Your right to swing your fist stops just short of the other person's nose...
 
Posts: 301 | Location: Outinthesticks | Registered: October 08, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
Picture of gearhounds
posted Hide Post
I imagine the passengers experienced a little bit of pucker factor on descent...




I'm very discreet. I have no code of ethics. I will kill anyone, anywhere. Children, animals, old people, doesn't matter. I just love killing.
Krombopulos Michael
 
Posts: 10454 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
A Grateful American
Picture of sigmonkey
posted Hide Post
My best friend and his wife were on that flight.
He sent me that image from his cell phone, but I am not sure if he took it. (The guy that took the video was named Tyler and "shared" it to my friend while they were waiting at Raleigh for another flight)

That aircraft (N927DA) is the same one that the #1 engine (same position) front compressor section exploded, killed a mother and son and injured half a dozen others, on takeoff roll at P-cola in 1996.
I'll see if he has any further info.

Some of the danger there would have been possible FOD (Foreign Object Damage) from the pieces off the nose cone/components and loss of blades that can "stack up" damage to jet engines.

It becomes a cascade effect, where damage multiplies from initial damage, and as parts are shed, they cause more damage that progresses back into the engine, rapidly to hotter section, and the potential for engine to come apart explosively. and Titanium blades and the disc hubs can result in high kinetic energy damage especially if there it becomes uncontaminated by the engine case.

quote:
Originally posted by Oldrider:
The turbine blades would be trashed if that piece continued through the engine. Not good. I'm going to guess sloppy assembly of an out of tolerance part as the culprit. I'm also of the opinion that someone should lose their A & P license and be relegated to cleaning the toilets. Stuff like that usually cause major loss of life.


Fatigue is more likely the issue. High frequency vibration and engine cycles and even with inspection criteria, intervals and type (both visual and Non Destructive) along with time change, things still fail.

NTSB folks will discover what happened.




"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" I could explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
 
Posts: 39384 | Location: fl | Registered: December 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Page late and a dollar short
posted Hide Post
From Fox NewsBig Grinelta provided passengers with a $30 food voucher while they waited to be re-routed on alternative flights.

Their compensation seems a bit lacking to me,thirty bucks is what, a couple of fast food burgers at an airport concession?


Ignorance is a powerful tool if applied at the right time, even, usually, surpassing knowledge(E.J.Potter, A.K.A. The Michigan Madman)
 
Posts: 5832 | Location: Livingston County Michigan USA | Registered: August 11, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Leave the gun.
Take the cannoli.
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by shovelhead:
Their compensation seems a bit lacking to me,thirty bucks is what, a couple of fast food burgers at an airport concession?


Or two shots of Jack and a tip. I’d need more than that after that flight.
 
Posts: 6286 | Location: New England | Registered: January 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
quote:
Originally posted by shovelhead:
Their compensation seems a bit lacking to me,thirty bucks is what, a couple of fast food burgers at an airport concession?


Or two shots of Jack and a tip. I’d need more than that after that flight.


Perhaps a clean pair of shorts too!

The part that came off is the spinner, it has no structural purpose and is not critical. It smooths the airflow into the engine and on this airplane I believe contains a pressure sensor as well. The reason it didn't get sucked through the engine is the fixed stator vanes you can see in the video. They're in front of the compressor blades you see turning and are there to provide some sort of airflow control. Without those vanes the cone would at a minimum have trashed the compressor blades and maybe the entire engine depending on how fast the engine was shut down. Had to be quite the sight from right next to that bad boy!




Mongo only pawn in game of life...
 
Posts: 278 | Location: DFW | Registered: August 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Not a major problem. Once the pilot back flushes the engine that debris will pop right out.
 
Posts: 754 | Location: Nashville | Registered: October 01, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
30 bucks? Hilarious. But insulting too. I would have pressed for my entire trip to be free.


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
Posts: 8664 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of pbramlett
posted Hide Post
It's got two engines. The pilots did their jobs landed safely. Why does everything have to be a defining event requiring therapy and compensation.

not bashing the OP or people in this thread. I guess i've been in some sticky situations enough where i don't sweat the small stuff. Would this get my BP up, probably, but i don't think it warrants everyone freaking out like they did on social media.

Blowing a hole in the side of the cabin with a catastrophic come apart of the engine, i'd probably need a bit more than a lunch voucher. This event however, i'd be more irritated with being in Raleigh more than anything.




Regards,

P.
 
Posts: 961 | Location: Alabama | Registered: May 20, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Ummm... Yep, a couple free airport meals is certainly just compensation for me being entertained by the engine on the aircraft I am on slowly self destructs. And then being dumped somewhere I had no intention of going and missing my connecting flights is just a minor irritant.
Sorry, 30 bucks doesnt cut it.


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
Posts: 8664 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Oldrider:
The turbine blades would be trashed if that piece continued through the engine. Not good. I'm going to guess sloppy assembly of an out of tolerance part as the culprit. I'm also of the opinion that someone should lose their A & P license and be relegated to cleaning the toilets. Stuff like that usually cause major loss of life.


The turbine blades are inside the engine; in a turbofan the fan blades will be damaged, but it's unlikely that those parts will make it into the engine. Just through the fan.

The engine has suffered catastrophic damage; the fan spinner, which houses (among other things) the bearing cap and the end of the N1 shaft, has failed, and is seen resting against the fan disc. The glowing pieces inside are the fan, bearing, and internal shaft, and are seen orbiting. They typically operate in the neighborhood of 30,000-40,000 RPM, and are no longer concentric; they are rubbing, and out of control. The engine will need to be shut down, if it hasn't been, already. It will also be windmilling in the slipstream, and can't be stopped until it core locks or seizes.

It would be premature to suggest that a mechanic is at fault, without any knowledge of the cause. Engines fail.

From a cockpit perspective, it's a one-step memory item, then a short checklist.

It does mean that the crew is left with one source for electricity, pneumatic air for pressurization and anti-ice, one hydraulic source, etc, so aside from the loss of thrust, there are other concerns that dictate making a landing as soon as practical.

An engine nacelle is supposed to contain engine parts; the fan, compressor, and turbine blades have considerable force on them as they spin, and can be thought of as a series of very fast, metal fans through which air is passing. When parts begin to enter that series of fans, more parts break off, and are slung outward and aft through the fan (and in the engine if the failure occurs internally. The fan that's seen in the video, against which the spinner is banging around, is external to the engine core). If those slung parts penetrate the engine nacelle (shell), they become missiles that can penetrate the fuselage. That can cause injury, or structural damage, depressurization, etc. The nacelle is supposed to contain those parts and allow them to blow aft and away.

Stator blades are inside the engine core, but not the fan. The spinner is banging around on the fan. It would keep banging around out there until the fan completely failed, or the engine core seized (quite possible with the bearings gone and parts heating to cherry red and deforming.

In a case like that, the failure event is often accompanied by one or more compressor stalls due to airflow changes; these can be anything from a low hooting sound to a very loud bang or series of bangs, and often a fireball out the front of the engine as airflow reverses direction. That's usually the most dramatic part. The last one I had was on takeoff, about three months ago, and was loud enough that the tower personnel felt it. I'm getting to be deaf as a post, and didn't hear it at all.
 
Posts: 3590 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
SNS, great explanation. The flight crew did what they were trained to do and safely landed. Kudos to that crew.

Question: is this a Pan-Pan or a Mayday?
 
Posts: 199 | Location: North of Pittsburgh, PA | Registered: January 29, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Old Air Cavalryman
Picture of ARMT Guy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SPWAMike0317:
SNS, great explanation. The flight crew did what they were trained to do and safely landed. Kudos to that crew.

Question: is this a Pan-Pan or a Mayday?



Wouldn't this be a Pan-Pan?




"Also I heard the voice of the Lord saying who shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, here am I, send me."




 
Posts: 7132 | Location: Georgia | Registered: February 19, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Political Cynic
Picture of nhtagmember
posted Hide Post
I do a Mayday call and get expedited treatment, move other airplanes out of the way so I can concentrate on problem solving and getting the plane on the ground before any parts decide to leave the containment ring, or have the problem get worse.

And of course, hoping the starboard engine wasn't done by the same AP/IA that did the port side engine Smile



Participating in a gun buy back program because you think criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbor has too many kids

"I'm only myself when I have a guitar in my hands." - George Harrison


 
Posts: 48327 | Location: Arizona | Registered: January 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Everyone is missing that the entire reason this happened is a main bearing failure on the turbine. If you watch the video, focus on the nut in the center of the turbine and you can see the nut that holds the turbine onto the shaft is moving 1-2" from side to side. The turbine blades are most likely already shot. But yes, this engine could/would have a complete stoppage sooner than later. This points to a bearing failure more so than a mechanics work issue, unless the turbine was just recently rebuilt.
 
Posts: 17492 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Thank you
Very little
Picture of HRK
posted Hide Post
quote:
Sorry, 30 bucks doesnt cut it.


Because everyone on the plane is standing there alive, without injury, after a mechanical failure at 25,000 feet happens due to the crew acting properly flew and landing the plane safely is underrated.



"My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them." Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 13478 | Location: FL | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I never liked the MD airliners. Those two engines right up against the cabin... Red Face Quite a difference in noise compared with the 737-series and 320-series which just about everybody has moved to.
 
Posts: 9019 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3 4  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    Jet engine issue. How dangerous was this

© SIGforum 2019